Rant about boat show

[boatmike]

Why is it that many of the stands at the boat show are manned by dyslectic teenagers? Or is it just me doing a Victor Meldrew? Why don't people understand what they are selling?
I have a fairly ancient monochrome chartplotter of dubious heritige using old fashioned NT chart cartridges that are now obsolete. Having decided to escape to the Med next year I decided to fork out on a computer based system in glorious technicolour on a laptop. because there are no tides in the med and I want to keep it simple I bought Winchart Planner for the princely sum of £76 and about £600 worth of C-Map charts for it (ouch!) all I now need is a GPS input for it. OK, Garmin make them thought I and trogged off to their stand. After spending 10 minutes explaining to a spotty teenager that I wanted only to input a GPS signal to my laptop I was met by blank looks. "You need a chartplotter then" "No I don't I have a laptop." "Er???" "We don't sell laptops" "Thats fine cos I don't want to buy one" ........
Enter second sales person.... Seemed to understand..... You can buy a stand alone antenna, or a handheld machine, either will give you an input to your computer.
"NMEA code" says I. "Er????" ........ Enter third salesman. "You don't want to do that" says he. You want to buy a GPS 152 complete with antenna and plug that into your computer. They are only £230 and you might buy one even cheaper at a chandler. An antenna will cost you £170 anyway....."
Thinks.... Good Idea.... Then if my laptop goes tits up I can still know where I am.... Yes I will have one of those...... "Have you got the cables to connect it to my computer?" "Err????" Much searching of catalogues..... "Yes heres one!" "No good says I that's serial output and I need to shove it in a USB...... "Er????" Enter salesman no 4. Heres a serial to USB conversion cable. ony £45 (Gulp!) Guaranteed to work......
Cut to home.
Load up Winchart..... Superb..... Stick power lead on Garmin.... OK. Spend 3 hours trying to decipher book of destructions..... Eventually find out it has to be set up to output NMEA (not in book) Find out how to do it and plug it in PC. Does not work. Phone up Garmin. "Have you loaded driver for USB they ask?" " What driver?" "The one in the box" Retrieve box. Find computer disk in bottom of box hiding under packaging with more destructions.... Load driver. Plug in. Still does not work! Phone Garmin. Oh we sometimes get this problem, it's a Microsoft Windows problem. It thinks the GPS is a mouse....... Visions of trying to get Bill Gates to sort it out....... Feel Victor Meldrew coming on. " No! Listen! You said it would work at the show and it doesn't." " Well can't do anymore now.. Office is closing.... Goodnight......."
OK... thinks I.... PC has a serial port. Laptop doesn't. Try it on there. It works! Problem obviously USB to Serial converter complete with driver.... Next day phone Garmin again. Repetition of claim that it's a Windows problem. Victor surfaces in full glory.... "Don't care if you think it's the man in the moons problem. It doesn't bloody work and does not do what you sold it to me for therefore it is not fit for the purpose ......blah blah blah... rant rant !!!"
In the meantime Son arrives with Maplin USB/Serial convertor for £11.50. We plug it in. It works! £45 Garmin crap doesn't. No drivers, no software, just a little pluggie.
Neadless to say Garmin get the crap back in the post. But no apology. No humble pie. In fact they still say it is a Windows problem!!!!!!

I don't belllieeeeeve it!
Am I the only one?
Nothing seems to work first time and no one understands what they are selling....

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[TrueBlue]

It helps a salsman no end if he doesn't know anything, else he couldn't - in all conscience - sell the junk that he does for a living.

For your future and anyone else reading this post, the people who make the <A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.directions.ltd.uk/moreinfo.php?id=2105>Navigator software </A> sell a GPS (GPS shaped like a mouse...)mouse with USB cable for about £80. cheaper than a GPS12 (now obsolete) and has less cables and can be put in a placky bag. There are probably other sources. See older posts on these fora.

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Stop what you're doing and wait my signal

 

[boatmike]

Yes, I saw some of these but was not convinced that I would get a reasonable signal inside my boat and they are not suitable for outside mounting.
The way I have done it is, granted, more expensive but gives me a proper rail mounted antenna outside.
The pity is that the USA built Garmin unit is pretty good and does what it says on the tin. It's just that no one at Garmin understands how to interface anything and the instructions that come with the ancilliary bits are rubbish. Having lived in the States I would venture that their USA based sales people are on the ball. They ain't over here though!

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[Becky]

HWMBO intended to go to the Merlin stand with a technical question. I suggested strongly that he call them beforehand to ascertain if there would be anyone with the necessary knowledge. Of course they didn't know at the shop, but assured him that they would by show time. When we went to the stand, James Hortop wasn't there, and nobody else had a clue. But we finally got sorted at another stand, by someone mature, who seemed to know even the serial numbers of what we were wanting to replace. We bought from him. Stick with the older guys, but still check beforehand to see if they can help you.

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[Talbot]

I bought a usb GPS system for abt £40 inc postage etc from ebay. It just plugs into the usb slot and once you have told the programme which port it is using (and it has a handy programme to find that out for you) the laptop works perfectly. The GPS is designed to stick to a metalic object or be hung up on a sticky pad and works fine inside my car - havent tried it in the boat yet, but beats all that messing about

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[boatmike]

Yes it does seem that these things work reasonably well. I suppose I may have been rather over cautious in wanting a rail mounted antenna outside the boat but I was advised that it would be a more reliable signal if I did. I wonder how many people who have laptop's on their boat have inside antennae for GPS and what performance they experience?
I have actually tried the antenna I bought in my house (no signal) in my conservatory (intermittent but it works) In my garage and car (good signal) and out in my garden (very strong signal)
I know bugger all about radio waves. Would a foam sandwich GRP boat coachroof attenuate a GPS signal more or less than a metal car roof I wonder?


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[Talbot]

Havent tried it inside my boat yet, but the aerial for my plotter and secondary GPS are both inside the wheelhouse, without any problems (except sometimes in a crowded berth) so dont see why it wont work! It has an 8 channel receiver, which is not as goood as the plotter, but better than the old GPS I have. Seems pretty accurate in the car, although I have the update rate set fairly slow (battery conservation)so dont expect any problems.

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[TrueBlue]

I occasionally use a GPS12 (old and probably not up to today's standards) in my car, putting it on the dash. Works OK, but slides around - which is a pain and I cannot see the display.

Put it on the passenger's seat when SWMBO is not around directly under the sunroof. Result. Magic.

Conclusion provided there is a visible view (words fail me) of the satellites for GPS - i.e. upwards, then the thing seems to work.

Do your boats have a clear roof panel? put the GPS / mouse under it or stick it to it. For the adventurous get a waterproof box with a clear plastic top and put it "outside". It's amazing what can be done with a bit of ingenuity. If it's not waterproof, waterproof it - like putting a camera in a diving bag (forgot the name).


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Stop what you're doing and wait my signal

 

[rhc21]

I use a USB 'mouse' GPS inside the boat. I position it onto the window next to the chart desk and have had no problems at all, away from the window is not so good. You do get a stronger signal if it is mounted outside but I see no point. The unit is supposed to be waterproof so should be okay outside. I do find my handheld Magellan gets a strong signal even if it's sitting on a shelf with the fiberglass deck directly above it and no real line of sight to the outside. My 'mouse GPS' is the same as the one in the link above.

Richard

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[davidbuttriss]

Was out on me boat today, decided to brush up on me plotting skills, down below, chart out, sharp pencil clear consuence etc etc, thought I'd use the Mk 1 eyeball, couldn't see a thing from cabin, sail bag in the way! Is that a windows problem?

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[TrueBlue]

Yes, you need SP2.

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Stop what you're doing and wait my signal

 

[boatmike]

Suggest you re-boot sailbag.......

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[Birdseye]

It actually is a Microsoft problem, and the recommended cure is to download a Microsoft patch called comdisable. This disables the com port which is hearing your nmea signal and is programmed to think that this sort of signal is a mouse. Trouble is, this microsoft bug seems to be intermittent, so sometimes it will appear and other times not.

To depress you a bit, the Maplin cable is undoubtedly using the usb to serial software program you have loaded for the Garmin, and the cable itself will be the same. To check on the software, go into system/device manager etc and look at the usb port. see what software is running. Cross check with the Garmin disk. So your problem is unlikely to have gone away. I have a Maplin cable and still get the same difficulty.

Incidentally, it also seems to depend on the sequence in which you boot up the computer and plug in the cable. So if you find a sequence which always gives results, stick to it.

Not that I am any sort of expert in this area. Just been struggling with the same problem (as have lots of people) for quite a while.



<hr width=100% size=1>this post is a personal opinion, and you should not base your actions on it.

 

[No1_Moose]

You don't want to disable the com port, you just need to tell it that it is not a mouse. Find and backup the boot.ini file (you will need to look in system and hidden folders) Open the original file (in notepad) and insert /NoSerialMice on the end of the last line, below is the copy of my file, yours may be slightly different.[boot loader]
timeout=30
default=multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS
[operating systems]
multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS="Microsoft Windows XP Home Edition" /fastdetect /NoSerialMice


<hr width=100% size=1>I do understand if you wish to ignore me!!!

 

[boatmike]

While not encouraging, thank you for this info. Is the problem confined to the use of Windows XP home do you think? Is it possible that most users are either using earlier windows versions or indeed earlier computers with serial ports? What sort of GPS input are you using? Garmin or something else? None of the guys who are using a cheapie mousey thingummy appear to have a problem. Indeed the serial port on my home PC is OK it's just the USB port. Unfortunately my new laptop does not have any serial ports.....
Where do I find the "comdisable" thing to download. I can't seem to locate it on the Microsoft website. What am I doing wrong?
Sorry for all the questions but I feel that between us we might at least narrow the problem down. It is at least good to know mine is not isolated problem!


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[boatmike]

Hey! You seem to know what this is all about!!!! Please do not dissapear. I will try that and see what happens and come back to you later... Thanks!

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[BustinAround]

Isn't the boot.ini file ususally in the root directory of whatever drive is set to boot first?

If you've only got one disk (ie. only a c:\) then its in there!

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[boatless]

Not just XP, Win 2000 is similarly tetchy.

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[Birdseye]

The comdisable programme is in the MS windows support area. Probably does just the same as moose's mod, and it doesnt really matter about disabling the port because you dont actually have the port anyway. you only have usb ports.

and its not the answer to the whole problem. I still have difficulty if I boot up in the wrong sequence, and the difficulty varies from nav programme to nav programme. I have not yet had any difficulty with the UKHO /RYA plotter of which I have a sample copy. That works every time.

There are some other computer operations that seem to be affected by the usb to serial conversion software I am using, so occasionally I find I have to disable that software .

All in all its a bit of a mess that I suspect is best solved by getting a USB GPS

<hr width=100% size=1>this post is a personal opinion, and you should not base your actions on it.

 

[ShipsWoofy]

I use a GPS12 to feed my radar and VHF. The GPS12 is well inside the boat (away from windows etc). It gets a signal not as strong as outside but enough so far to maintain lock.

The GPS12XL I think allows you to add an external aerial.

My coach roof has plywood headlining but is not sandwich GRP. The GPS is about 24" down from the roof. So far cloud cover etc has not affected the weaker signal. I admit I have not watched it rigorously while out, maybe it occasionally flicks between 3D and 2D fix, but so far the VHF and radar has not set off the alarm declaring GPS loss.

hope this helps....

<hr width=100% size=1><A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.topcatsail.co.uk>Woof</A>