Ramsey marina, IoM

[ridgy]

Only recently came across this, a plan for a new marina in Ramsey, Isle of Man:
Ramsey Marina – Ramsey Bay Marina

I do hope it goes ahead, this would make a big difference for yachties in the area, no other all tide marinas for miles.

 

[Concerto]

Looks like a good idea for a new marina but I would question how poorly protected the marina would be from a SW gale. These are not very common but one could cause substantial damge to berthed yachts without an addition breakwater.

 

[ridgy]

Do you mean a SE gale?

 

[steve yates]

Not entirely sure Ramsey needs a marina, but if it proved popular could be a real boost to a not very well off town. Personally, there are few enough ports left where you can tie up to the harbour walls, and I would much prefer to carry on tieing up right outside the pubs, so as long as yachts don't get banned from the harbour itself I’m ambivalent.

 

[geem]

It would probably go the same way as Holyhead marina. That one was wiped out in a strong Easterly gale a few years ago. There are no plans for a breakwater n this one either. Stupid

 

[RunAgroundHard]

It looks protected enough to me, and it does have a breakwater outside the marina entrance. Perhaps a dog leg entrance would be better. Expanding the development with flats and houses, as shown, might prove beneficial and attractive to retirees to the IOM.

 

[geem]

It looks protected enough to me, and it does have a breakwater outside the marina entrance. Perhaps a dog leg entrance would be better. Expanding the development with flats and houses, as shown, might prove beneficial and attractive to retirees to the IOM.

Lots of negative discussion in the IOM about the marina development. Locals don't want it.

 

[RunAgroundHard]

Lots of negative discussion in the IOM about the marina development. Locals don't want it.

I wonder why there are lots of objections and how representative the views are?

The IOM government did a review of their community social issues and it did not look good in all areas, except for wealthy people. Similar issues to UK but far more acute in the IOM.

This development I would have thought represents opportunity for local jobs, economy et cetera.

 

[geem]

I wonder why there are lots of objections and how representative the views are?

The IOM government did a review of their community social issues and it did not look good in all areas, except for wealthy people. Similar issues to UK but far more acute in the IOM.

This development I would have thought represents opportunity for local jobs, economy et cetera.

A friend of mine is a yacht owner and lives in the IOM. He is firmly against it. They don't beleive the marina is protected adequately from the east. He sent me photos of an easterly storm in the harbour. It was untenable. The thought is that the developer has not interest in the marina but unless he builds the marina he can't build the houses where the money is to be made.

 

[RunAgroundHard]

A friend of mine is a yacht owner and lives in the IOM. He is firmly against it. They don't beleive the marina is protected adequately from the east. He sent me photos of an easterly storm in the harbour. It was untenable. The thought is that the developer has not interest in the marina but unless he builds the marina he can't build the houses where the money is to be made.

Houses mean people, people mean money, local economy benefits. Sounds myopic to me. The plans with external breakwater look satisfactory but could be improved.

I know the IOM and the area.

 

[geem]

Houses mean people, people mean money, local economy benefits. Sounds myopic to me. The plans with external breakwater look satisfactory but could be improved.

I know the IOM and the area.

I guess my friend that lives nearby knows it very well. The 'could be improved' bit is the problem

 

[dankilb]

I know the IOM and the area.

Ever been there for an easterly gale, though? Rare scourge of Irish Sea moorings. (Not that I’m against another local marina either…)

 

[RunAgroundHard]

Ever been there for an easterly gale, though? Rare scourge of Irish Sea moorings. (Not that I’m against another local marina either…)

I have seen plenty of gales damage exposed marinas.

However, that is not the point, a new build marina should have the protection designed and built in.

Even though a marina would be useful, the housing development in itself could be good for the area.

 

[geem]

I have seen plenty of gales damage exposed marinas.

However, that is not the point, a new build marina should have the protection designed and built in.

Even though a marina would be useful, the housing development in itself could be good for the area.

The breakwater proposed for the Ramsey Marina is not substantial. When it fails and needs repairing, who picks up the cost? The very substantial harbour wall at Holyhead needs £40M spending on it. The beach is already designated as a SSI. The local plan doesn't accommodate a marina. Nobody seems to want it apart from the developer

 

[RunAgroundHard]

The breakwater proposed for the Ramsey Marina is not substantial. When it fails and needs repairing, who picks up the cost? The very substantial harbour wall at Holyhead needs £40M spending on it. The beach is already designated as a SSI. The local plan doesn't accommodate a marina. Nobody seems to want it apart from the developer

How do you know it is not substantial? The Holyhead example is not comparable for lots of reasons, age, hardly a new development, using an old existing space, therefore irrelevant. The council appear to support it if you actually read the details on the web site.

Sure, if the whole town are against it, then those objections need to be considered and appropriately weighted in the final decision.

 

[geem]

How do you know it is not substantial? The Holyhead example is not comparable for lots of reasons, age, hardly a new development, using an old existing space, therefore irrelevant. The council appear to support it if you actually read the details on the web site.

Sure, if the whole town are against it, then those objections need to be considered and appropriately weighted in the final decision.

The website is the developers website. They are clearly going to say what a great developement it is. The truth is, the latest plan for the island, put together by the IOM authorities does not include the marina development. Regardless of what the developers website says, they don't appear to have the backing of the IOM government.
The marina development in Quinta de Lord, Madeira is a similar scheme. The marina had a similar harbour wall. A big storm sent waves over the wall and pontoon broke free. Boats sank. The last 30 metres of the wall were destroyed and never rebuilt. The developer could not afford to do the work and the marina is now blighted since it is not secure from storms and never really was.

 

[RunAgroundHard]

... IOM authorities does not include the marina development. ... they don't appear to have the backing of the IOM government.
The marina development in Quinta de Lord, Madeira is a similar scheme. The marina had a similar harbour wall. A big storm sent waves over the wall and pontoon broke free. Boats sank. The last 30 metres of the wall were destroyed and never rebuilt. The developer could not afford to do the work and the marina is now blighted since it is not secure from storms and never really was.

Then it is moot point because you are certain it is not going to be built based on your pals information and your analysis of the IOM governments support. Based on your overall analysis it is in the too hard to do box because it didn't work in Maderia and Holyhead.

It is such a same that a development which could lead to growth and social benefits for the town, as well as marine based tourism, is lambasted because a developer will make profits from it and the technical requirements are assumed to be inadequate.

 

[geem]

Then it is moot point because you are certain it is not going to be built based on your pals information and your analysis of the IOM governments support. Based on your overall analysis it is in the too hard to do box because it didn't work in Maderia and Holyhead.

It is such a same that a development which could lead to growth and social benefits for the town, as well as marine based tourism, is lambasted because a developer will make profits from it and the technical requirements are assumed to be inadequate.

Developers put profits before everything. I worked in the construction industry my whole career. As a consultant, we worked for developers, contractors and clients. We saw it from all sides. I have a low opinion of developers. They will do no more than absolutely necessary. They swap design team members until they find the designer thst will do what they want regardless of whether it is the best solution for the problem. Reputable designers usually learn not to work for developers as we did. So yes, I believe their technical solutions will be inadequate for the long term security of the marina development.

 

[RunAgroundHard]

Developers put profits before everything. I worked in the construction industry my whole career. As a consultant, we worked for developers, contractors and clients. We saw it from all sides. I have a low opinion of developers. They will do no more than absolutely necessary. They swap design team members until they find the designer thst will do what they want regardless of whether it is the best solution for the problem. Reputable designers usually learn not to work for developers as we did. So yes, I believe their technical solutions will be inadequate for the long term security of the marina development.

Have you actually seen the detailed deign, if not your claims are unsubstantiated, although I appreciate your experience and observations may be relevant? It appears to me that the default approach to such developments is always negative, rather than how can we make this work, assuming of course that the development is needed.

A lot of work will happen to instal the flood defence scheme, which was shit canned by local councillors a couple of years ago mostly for reasons that could have been addressed at the design stage or planning application stage, if local folks needs and wants had been demanded and considered in the final proposal. I am not up to speed on the status of the new scheme proposals.

There are some examples of flood defence schemes being built with marina options agreed at the planning stage, but to be privately funded at a later date e.g Millport, Great Cumbrae. To me, it just appears that those who are influential to affect the design of the marina, if the sea defence experience is anything to go by, are not doing the influencing. It is not beyond the powers of local government to overcome the issues which you state happens in the industry, by having key requirements built into the design.

It was ever thus!

My interest is purely self servicing, I am planning to cruise further south and Ireland, and a marina just south of Point of Ayre would be nice. I may also retire to the IofM as I have family who live there and long links to the Island.

 

[geem]

Have you actually seen the detailed deign, if not your claims are unsubstantiated, although I appreciate your experience and observations may be relevant? It appears to me that the default approach to such developments is always negative, rather than how can we make this work, assuming of course that the development is needed.

A lot of work will happen to instal the flood defence scheme, which was shit canned by local councillors a couple of years ago mostly for reasons that could have been addressed at the design stage or planning application stage, if local folks needs and wants had been demanded and considered in the final proposal. I am not up to speed on the status of the new scheme proposals.

There are some examples of flood defence schemes being built with marina options agreed at the planning stage, but to be privately funded at a later date e.g Millport, Great Cumbrae. To me, it just appears that those who are influential to affect the design of the marina, if the sea defence experience is anything to go by, are not doing the influencing. It is not beyond the powers of local government to overcome the issues which you state happens in the industry, by having key requirements built into the design.

It was ever thus!

My interest is purely self servicing, I am planning to cruise further south and Ireland, and a marina just south of Point of Ayre would be nice. I may also retire to the IofM as I have family who live there and long links to the Island.

For me the attraction of the IOM is its lack of development. Its like going back in time. I don't want to it to end up like every other soleless place.