Rambler Class by Laurent Giles

Roach1948

Roach1948

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www.dallimoredesigns.nl
Would anybody have any experience of this rather rare class from the Giles' board?

I believe the first was designed as liveaboard for Humphrey Barton after crossing the Atlantic in Vertue XXXV and the most famous in the class was called "Rose Rambler". I would love to know more about this unusual yacht (and the slutter rig), her adventures and whether she is an oversized vertue with similar see-keeping qualities or a Giles experiment that has been long forgotten. I would also be keen to know if she would be a good modern liveaboard classic?

Any info and book recommendations much appreciated.
 
I remember "Rose Rambler".

I would say she was very much in the mainstream of Giles designs except for the big windows in the doghouse. I remember being surprised by these.
 
I remember seeing Rose Rambler in Barbados in the late '80's, after another successful and routine Atlantic passage.

Have you seen this link to her? Stacks of info at :
http://www.roserambler.co.uk

Re hull form, most of Laurent Giles' designs were based on a geosim of a standard hull form he developed - I am not too sure which one was first, but a comparison of the hull lines of Andrillot and Dyarchy in Uffa's book shows that they are almost identical, with just very minor changes.
If you design something that works well, why change it? And it is easy enough (within reason) to scale hull lines up or down.

Andrillot (25' LOA) was the predecessor of the Vertue, while Dyarchy (45' LOA) was designed for Roger Pinckney whose previous boat was a Bristol Channel pilot cutter. They both have transom hung rudders, whereas Rose Rambler has a counter stern.
However I am sure that RR's hull lines are basically similar to Andrillot and Dyarchy, with just some slight changes at the aft end (sweep the buttock lines further aft) to incorporate the counter.

Cardhu (another lovely Giles design) is similar to RR in this respect, and she has a dog house with large windows - she used to live in Poole Yacht Club marina, but did a successful Atlantic circuit in 1989 without trauma - we welcomed their crew in here when they arrived!
 
Yes I was suprised by the size of these windows too - and wondered whether they looked awkward. Now the design has grown on me and I really like them. I suppose Barton must have put large windows in his design brief. Maybe the darkness inside a Vertue mk. 1 was to blame? I note that Mk. 2's had much larger windows , and new forward facing ones were added in the mk.3
 
Thanks for the link.

The Rambler classes seem to have a shoal draft - less than the much shorter Vertue - That's why I wonder whether it was a departure from previous deeper keeled and he was trying to reduce wetted area for speed. It would seem that as she was designed as a "world rambler" he must have been trying to reduce wetted area as oppsed to making a shoal draft for practicalities.

LOA: 34.6' LWL: 27.5' Beam: 9.7'
Displacement: 8.1 tons Draft: 4.3'

I also note from the Rose Rambler site that she has no aperture in the rudder at all and the prop in mounted in the deadwood. Very wise!

I agree that Cardhu is a gem, but Cerida, is probably my favourite Giles' design.
 
I would think that shoal draft for all those areas around the Atlantic that are shallow might have been a strong requirement when Laurent Giles designed her for Humphrey Barton.

I would also be fairly certain that her hull form is most probably just a shallower version of Andrillot, Dyarchy et al - in the same manner as if you change the vertical scale on a picture you are printing, to have reduced depth, while keeping the horizontal scale (length) the same.

I tried to ask Google for some info on Cerida, but I couldnt really find any, other than vague references, but no photos or hard data - have you got any?
 
The only stuff I could find is this.....

It seems that "Cerida" is now in Italy, owned by one Giuseppe Giordano, or at least she was in 2003?
 
Re: Ramblers and Peter Ducks

Ah yes, sorry, I had forgotten the Peter Ducks! Again very fine vessels - and I have seen a couple out here (not at the same time), both looking immaculate after their transatlantic passages.
 
She is a Gem! Up there with Fife in my opinion!


Pastorelli1m.jpg


br0209_p16a.jpg


br0209_h11.jpg


There is also a very nice photo on the www.laurentgiles.co.uk site under archives. Its the middle roll-over on the the bottomof the page.
 
Thought I would post a sail plan for the Rambler Class too for those that may not know what I am on about. The Slutter Rig is what intrigues me as it is half way between a cutter and sloop. The staysail is really quite large and it's foot is attached to the bottom of the forestay.

1505795_10.jpg

1505795_4.jpg
 
We have a slightly different arrangement of the Slutter rig on our Challenger 35 - the tang at the top of the inner forestay is just below the headstay fitting, while the foot is about 3' aft of the stemhead. It is a very versatile rig for sure - we have a roller genny on the headstay and a hank on staysail for the inner forestay - also a storm jib which has never been used.... must try it out sometime.

Our accomodation plan is also similar, altho' we are a wee bit beamier at 10'. I like having the engine under a box between the galley and the chart table, rather than under the cockpit - OK, it takes away some space, and tall folk have to be careful re bashing their heads on the roof when going up the companionway, but the advantage of having excellent engine access is well worth the trade off, imho.

Re other Giles designs, I think Pazienza and Donella are also rather lovely (in addition to Cerida of course!).
And re the fibreglass Mk II Vertue, she was (re)designed by one of my former colleagues at the RNLI, in the days when he was working at Laurent Giles with Mike Pocock (he of Troubadour, Blackjack and Starlight Return fame, amongst many others).
 
Hi!

...Re other Giles designs?!

"The Maid" (i.e. Maid of Malham, 1937, LOA 48') a lovely interesting vessel, with an interesting modern masthead rig, and detachable forestays (I think!). (Reference: Uffa Fox's 4th book, page 46)

Also the Myth of Malham? (twice Fastnet winner, 1947, 1949)...

Best wishes.
 
Re: Myth of Malham

Just some deviant musings re Myth and her last owner.......

The Myth was quite a legend in her time! John Illingworth had a fair bit of input re her design, and she just mopped up - there is a nice summary history of her by Bob Fisher at http://www.rorc.org/admiralscup/history/1957/default.html

And there is a nice photo of her sailing hard in the book 'Atlantic Venture' by John Groser, about the 1968 OSTAR when she was sailed by Noel Bevan.

I later met Noel for the first time in the late 70's, some years after he had sailed his lovely old Colin Archer gaff schooner 'Lista Light' out to the Windies.
Noel and Mary lived on board LL in Bequia, and the sailing world beat their way to LL from all over the Caribbean because Noel was a dab hand at fixing anything electronic on a yacht. Mary often had to repel boarders..........
BTW, did any of you lot ever have an Aptel DDF direction finder? Noel designed that, and he had many other inventions to his name.
They sailed LL back to England in 1980, and they were berthed in Southampton for a couple of years at Universal Marine just up river from Kemps on the Itchen. And then they sailed back out to the Windies in 1982 - I sailed with them on the leg from Southampton down to Plymouth, where we saw the Atlantic Conveyor being loaded up with gear prior to her departure for the Falklands......

LL had a wonderful old Wichmann (correct spelling?) 'one lung' diesel engine with a controllable pitch prop, no gearbox, a flywheel that weighed 1.5 tonnes alone, operating at shaft revs probably around 120 rpm - and she would blow smoke rings..... one amazing boat for sure.
This engine was a tempermental beast though, and only Noel could handle her - she would get very cranky if any one else tried to make friends with her.

LL now has a 'modern' diesel engine (and no doubt a lot more room to spare in the dedicated engine room - it took up about 20% of the accomodation) - more info about her at http://www.listalight.co.uk/main.asp
 
Re: Myth of Malham

Many thanks - most interesting. (And no, I haven't met an Aptel DDF!) (...though I've heard of the Atlantic Conveyor!)

And some really good photes in the Lista Light site...

Best wishes
 
Hi
I was with Jack Giles and did some of the design of the Rambler Class. I also designed the Wanderer class.
The Rambler was a development of Humphrey Barton’s ‘Rose Rambler’. I only met Hum once during the four years I was there as he was off continuously cruising. The occasion was one Christmas Eve. I was the last to leave the office in Quay Hill and as I closed the door and turned to go down to the Quay in the dark a figure came shuffling up the slope with a package under his arm. He said, “ Is there anybody in the office”. I told him that everybody had gone and he said that he was Humphrey Barton. I asked him where he had come from and he said that he had just crossed the Atlantic and that he had come back because his Simpson Lawrence toilet seat had broken and he needed a replacement!!
I am still yacht designing and I am one of only two people who have Jack Giles’s unique method of drawing the lines of safe, seaworthy, well balanced cruising yachts.
 
A fascinating story!

My former colleague (who is still at the RNLI, but retiring this year after almost 25 years service) is Dave Parrott, draughtsman extraordinaire, who used to work in the attic at 4 Quay Hill - this would have been about the mid - late '70's.
 
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