Rafting up

[Athene V30]

Seeing the thread on Harbour Walls, rafting up is mentioned and got me thinking....

When I started 'big' boat sailing in mid '70s it was common place and most folk followed a similar 'etiquette':-

Go alongside bigger or similar sized boat.
Inboard boat leaves out a fender (or two), clears jib sheets / trip hazards (as best can!) to be welcoming
Ask first if someone is onboard before coming alongside.
Tie the end of lines on inboard boat and keep working line onboard boat
At least offer to rig shore lines
Cross in front of mast wearing sensible boat shoes
Cross gently avoiding deck fittings / spi pole etc

Don't seem to get the same now. More than once I have been thrown the whole line and expected to pull the other boat in, had outboard boat crews walking through the cockpit (well after berthing up), no mention of shore lines etc

Is any of this stuff covered on courses?

 

[Deleted member 36384]

I have always tried to berth bow to stern when rafting up. It takes care of a few concerns: masts/spreaders well apart, privacy, obvious to pass over bow of other vessel, hulls fit together better (less raft width). Is it covered in courses? It certainly was on the courses I have been involved with but I don't know about that today.

 

[Barnacle Bill]

Is any of this stuff covered on courses?

It should be. And have a look at the Reeds Crew Handbook (Adlard Coles Nautical) : aimed at crew rather than skippers, but contains advice on rafting.

 

[Sandyman]

Seeing the thread on Harbour Walls, rafting up is mentioned and got me thinking....

When I started 'big' boat sailing in mid '70s it was common place and most folk followed a similar 'etiquette':-

Go alongside bigger or similar sized boat.
Inboard boat leaves out a fender (or two), clears jib sheets / trip hazards (as best can!) to be welcoming
Ask first if someone is onboard before coming alongside.
Tie the end of lines on inboard boat and keep working line onboard boat
At least offer to rig shore lines
Cross in front of mast wearing sensible boat shoes
Cross gently avoiding deck fittings / spi pole etc

Don't seem to get the same now. More than once I have been thrown the whole line and expected to pull the other boat in, had outboard boat crews walking through the cockpit (well after berthing up), no mention of shore lines etc

Is any of this stuff covered on courses?

Not to my knowledge. It comes with experience.
The previous owner of our boat had a good idea. He used to put up a notice which said ..........'' The Rules for Rafting Up on Fijamor''
I never used it in UK waters but found it useful in France where rafting up is the norm.

 

[laika]

Is any of this stuff covered on courses?

None of the ones I did. People often extol the virtues of doing courses in winter. Yes you get used to hanking on the storm jib on a pitching foredeck mid channel, but you remain clueless about the everyday situations for most boaters, ie anchoring in a crowded anchorage where the "ideal" spot doesn't exist or rafting up.

Having said that, I've found most people *do* observe rafting etiquette. Very rarely have people not crossed in front of my mast.

Don't get me started on people who put their weight onto my guard rails rather than the shrouds to get aboard though...

One of the problems of having a large Westerly is that people see your boat as large enough to raft against but probably inhabited by people down-to-earth enough to be friendly, so we're usually first choice.

 

[Athene V30]

It comes with experience..

That is part of the issue to me, a growth of boaters (and I mean boaters rather than sailors) who have learnt from courses and not from sailing with more experienced people.

I never used it in UK waters but found it useful in France where rafting up is the norm.

Abroad I find it is the British who get it wrong more than the locals who are used to it

One of the problems of having a large Westerly is that people see your boat as large enough to raft against but probably inhabited by people down-to-earth enough to be friendly, so we're usually first choice.

I have a 27' narrow beam Cutlass and have ended up with 4 or 5 bigger boats rafted outboard before now. Fortunately it was not in any tidal stream otherwise I would have slipped and gone on the outside.

 

[Sandyman]

That is part of the issue to me, a growth of boaters (and I mean boaters rather than sailors) who have learnt from courses and not from sailing with more experienced people..

Yes agreed, but today they are taught to pass exams, not seamanship & the courtesies of the sailing world.

 

[Neil_Y]

We came across a great practice which we continued from Northern Spain, although the first boat that did it was French.

If you raft alongside a boat with no body aboard leave a bottle of wine in the cockpit, and a note possibly. If enough people start doing this it may get us back to the old days of neighbours being encouraged? I used to love harbour wall rafting and socialising before the pontoon.

 

[Seajet]

None of the ones I did. People often extol the virtues of doing courses in winter. Yes you get used to hanking on the storm jib on a pitching foredeck mid channel, but you remain clueless about the everyday situations for most boaters,

Not if you're already experienced and just want a YMO as a qualification.

One trick for rafting up is to set a spinnaker pole from ones' mast pole eye horizontally across clipped onto the eye of the other boats' mast, so as to synchonise the rolling and avoid the rigs conflicting, but I was always too concerned about the loads involved to try it, maybe worth a go if unable to clear off from the mooring ?

 

[Deleted member 36384]

One trick for rafting up is to set a spinnaker pole from ones' mast pole eye horizontally across clipped onto the eye of the other boats' mast, so as to synchonise the rolling and avoid the rigs conflicting, but I was always too concerned about the loads involved to try it, maybe worth a go if unable to clear off from the mooring ?

What! A key element of rafting up is to avoid the masts being in line or nearly in line to prevent spreaders from clashing with one another, which they would if a spinnaker pole was connected between two boats. The last thing one needs is a stiffish connection between free to move bodies.

Anyway both yachts could roll in different directions as the spinnaker pole can articulate around the rings on each mast individually e.g. if the wave length was such that one hull rolled in while the other hull rolled out i.e. push both hulls apart pivoting around the pole links until something snapped, I would imagine.

 

[capnsensible]

Quite a few tides ago, I went alongside West Cowes marina and my oppo Mark came and rafted outside of me. Don't know if they still do but the marina staff used to rush down with an invitation to pay pronto. This caused a 'discussion' about the politeness of at least waiting until we were properly secured. Anyway, the unfortunate was then subjected to a further 'discussion' with Mark as to how he had paid me his mooring fees as he wasn't tied up to the marina but alongside another yacht....

Felt quite sorry for the bloke in the end!

 

[afs67]

Quote Originally Posted by Karouise View Post
Is any of this stuff covered on courses?

It should be. The following is an extract from the RYA Comp Crew syllabus:
Manners and Customs
Understands accepted practice with regard to ....."prevention of unnecessarynoise or disturbance in harbour includingcourtesies to other craft berthed"

To some extent it will depend on who is teaching the course. The more experienced sailor will include this but instructors can only teach what they have learned and not all instuctors are experienced.
On the point of mooring bow to stern, this can be problematic in some places where perhaps more consideration needs to be given to a strong running tide or wind conditions (IMHO).

 

[Athene V30]

We came across a great practice which we continued from Northern Spain, although the first boat that did it was French.

If you raft alongside a boat with no body aboard leave a bottle of wine in the cockpit, and a note possibly. If enough people start doing this it may get us back to the old days of neighbours being encouraged? I used to love harbour wall rafting and socialising before the pontoon.

I like this idea.

 

[[2574]]

In Fowey last season we had the pleasant experience of being rafted by an elderly gentleman, with a big boat, who had the process sorted. He stood off until he had fenders at the right height. We didn't deploy fenders (at his request) as he didn't want fenders snagging as he came alongside. He also prepared four lines (2 breasts and 2 springs) each with a bowline on the end. He gently came alongside and asked that we drop two of the bowlines on our stern cleat and two on our bow cleat, once we had done that he needed no further assistance from us and he didn't need to board our boat. He adjusted his lines as necessary, put a bow line on the buoy and then opened a bottle - and invited us to join him. We've tried to do the same when we're the rafter ever since.

 

[Daydream believer]

I do not mind rafting but i do get concerned when someone comes along side & insists on taking lines ashore which are so tight it crushes my fenders. When the boats roll the fenders then squeak all night
Another irritation is when you tell those outside that you are going at a certain time & they p...s off up the pub returning hours later
Alternatively they act so slowly when you want to go they seem to be making it deliberately awkward
I have in the past chucked all the lines off & left them to sort themselves out. But only if they are acting like idiots as it is not something i like doing. Best tip is not to raft near french boats as they have no respect for yours often not even having fenders
Dutch sailors tend to be polite, helpful & better sailors

 

[laika]

That is part of the issue to me, a growth of boaters (and I mean boaters rather than sailors) who have learnt from courses and not from sailing with more experienced people.

Just because something isn't taught on a course doesn't mean people remain ignorant of it, just as those who were fortunate enough to be taught by family or friends are not forever constrained by their mentors' knowledge. Aside from being in plenty of books of seamanship, putting "rafting etiquette" into a search engine yields plenty of hits. As with med mooring, a sensible person will anticipate that it will need to be done and find out how they should do it beforehand. Worst case, surely anyone with a bit of common sense will get scowled at once, do some research, then do it right next time.

Edit: To the grumpier members of the forum: politely advising miscreants of correct behaviour will be appreciated by learners a lot more than scowling and won't be any worse if they are simply wilfully rude.

 

[Cantata]

I'm happy to have civilised folk raft up to me, but I was on a hammerhead one evening, really pinned onto it by a ton of wind, when a (much larger) sailing school boat arrived and wanted to raft outside me. I'm afraid I refused on the basis of possible damage to my boat. The skipper got quite forceful, seems he had promised his customers a run ashore and didn't want to pick up a mooring. But that's what he had to do in the end. It must have been the right thing to do as I didn't feel guilty about it, and I'm a sensitive soul.

 

[Elessar]

Yes agreed, but today they are taught to pass exams, not seamanship & the courtesies of the sailing world.

that's an interesting generalisation that's not accurate in my experience.

I always teach rafting etiquette. And all others I know do too. I agree with the OPs list.

I always enjoy rafting up you get to chat to people.

I remember being on the inside of about 5 or six boats last year, and the way it was it was very much easier (and safer) for those outside me to go through my cockpit and step off my bathing platform.

I had to virtually beg some them to do so, it just seemed so alien to them. None did so without being asked.

So some people still have the courtesies ingrained.

And to laika's edit - well said.

 

[Barnacle Bill]

Yes agreed, but today they are taught to pass exams, not seamanship & the courtesies of the sailing world.

Although I completely would agree with you if we were talking about UK secondary school children, I don't think you can claim this of RYA courses.

For one thing, there isn't an exam at the end of the Comp Crew, Day Skipper or Coastal Skipper 5-day courses. And most instructors are very much teaching seamanship, although there are limitations of what you can achieve - given very variable levels of experience and appreciation of seamanship in the students who come on a course, and the relatively short amount of time they spend on the course (or at sea generally).

Now if there were compulsory qualifications and an exam for that, then we would be teaching them how to pass it ...

 

[Daydream believer]

I'm happy to have civilised folk raft up to me, but I was on a hammerhead one evening, really pinned onto it by a ton of wind, when a (much larger) sailing school boat arrived and wanted to raft outside me. I'm afraid I refused on the basis of possible damage to my boat. The skipper got quite forceful, seems he had promised his customers a run ashore and didn't want to pick up a mooring. But that's what he had to do in the end. It must have been the right thing to do as I didn't feel guilty about it, and I'm a sensitive soul.

Did you not consider pulling out & letting them come inside with you on the oitside?