Radar enhancers

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chrisclin

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I'm considering replacing my halyard mounted radar reflector that I've never been able to construct properly. All the reviews make it obvious that an electronic enhancer is the best way to go and the names Sea-me and Echomax look like the only contenders.
Unfortunately I can't find anywhere that sells Sea-me. Even the www.sea-me.co.uk site states that their product is out of stock. Does that mean that Echomax have no competitors?
 
chrisclin said:
I'm considering replacing my halyard mounted radar reflector that I've never been able to construct properly. All the reviews make it obvious that an electronic enhancer is the best way to go and the names Sea-me and Echomax look like the only contenders.
Unfortunately I can't find anywhere that sells Sea-me. Even the www.sea-me.co.uk site states that their product is out of stock. Does that mean that Echomax have no competitors?
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The company behind Sea-Me went out of business last year. You might find an odd Sea-Me in stock with a chandlery, but there'd be no aftersales support, so it might not be a good idea to buy. Echomax is about the only alternative.
 
I've an Echomax, and have nothing but praise for it. I reckon that it's the only 'real' reflector that I should use on my wooden boat with wooden spars. I've asked vessels if they can see me as they pass, and then turned it off for a comparison, where they've then told me that I've 'virtually' disappeared. I didn't try to find Sea-me kit, but wish you luck if that's your choice.
 
I also looked at one of these rcently. Certainly look effective..
However the advice I got was to fit a decent passive reflector and instead spend any money firstly on AIS transmitting and secondly on radar to look out for ourselves. Matter of opinion if you agree with that advice but seemed plausible to me. Have the former and considering the latter.
As the rig won't allow a passive reflector on the front of the mast now adding a passive reflector to the backstay to supplement the "hoist in fog" one.
 
+1 on the passive reflector. Electrickery is far too dependent on batteries and engines for my peace of mind. My Cyclops appears to be good enough for passing ships to see, the tripple lunaberg lens one is also highly recommended. I've had the odd "worry" in poor vis but Ch16 is your friend under such circumstances (assuming a radio watch on passing shipping). Avoid the thin tubes like the plague; only good for meeting racing rules that say you have to carry one.
 
Topcat47 said:
+1 on the passive reflector. Electrickery is far too dependent on batteries and engines for my peace of mind. My Cyclops appears to be good enough for passing ships to see, the tripple lunaberg lens one is also highly recommended. .
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Doubt the fact that ships can see you is much to do with your radar reflector, more to do with the fact that most yachts - with or without reflectors show up on most radars.

Have a look at the tests on radar reflectors that macd links to. As you will see, most passive reflectors are relatively ineffective.
 
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Tranona said:
Doubt the fact that ships can see you is much to do with your radar reflector, more to do with the fact that most yachts - with or without reflectors show up on most radars.

Have a look at the tests on radar reflectors that macd links to. As you will see, most passive reflectors are relatively ineffective.
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I've done a fair bit of work on the subject in the past, including prior work with the guys at Funtington. The cyclops and tri-lens reflectors return a fairly consistent echo. While my yacht might well give a larger return under ideal conditions, the consistency given by my chosen reflector means that there will always be a trace on a radar screen which means that it is less likely to be confused with clutter. The standard tri-lens was quoted at 4.2 square meters. The iso "recommendation" is 10. To carry a passive enhancer with this reflective performance on a small yacht is not possible, the large EchoMax is almost the size of a dustbin. I can't find anywhere to fit bigger than 85ah batteries or more than two on my boat. My judgement was (and is) that reliance on electronics is not a safe and sensible option. I'm happy to live with my choice, by all means go with yours.
 
Topcat47 said:
I've done a fair bit of work on the subject in the past, including prior work with the guys at Funtington. The cyclops and tri-lens reflectors return a fairly consistent echo. While my yacht might well give a larger return under ideal conditions, the consistency given by my chosen reflector means that there will always be a trace on a radar screen which means that it is less likely to be confused with clutter. The standard tri-lens was quoted at 4.2 square meters. The iso "recommendation" is 10. To carry a passive enhancer with this reflective performance on a small yacht is not possible, the large EchoMax is almost the size of a dustbin. I can't find anywhere to fit bigger than 85ah batteries or more than two on my boat. My judgement was (and is) that reliance on electronics is not a safe and sensible option. I'm happy to live with my choice, by all means go with yours.
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The difference between 10 sqm and 4.2 is less than 4dB, barely more than the uncertainty in a typical radar scenario.

What I took from the Ouzo report is that radars on ferries are too high up to be ideal for seeing yachts in sea clutter. And their CFAR was set quite low in the simulations they quoted...

A cheap radar on a yacht has a much easier time seeing a big target like a x-channel ferry.
These days, I think it's not hard to avoid x-channel ferries using an AIS receiver.
But, then you might get hit by a fishing boat with no reflector. And probably no-one rigorously looking at the radar.
 
Ah but AIS requires wriggley amps and electrickery isn't my boat's forte. I can't cross the channel without running the engine to charge my service battery without AIS, Radar, Depth, chart plotter or radar transponder. I do what I can and keep the best lookout I can manage. It's served me well for the last 20 years or more. It's nice to know I can be seen by both huge container ships and channel islands ferries if needs be.
 
Topcat47 said:
Ah but AIS requires wriggley amps and electrickery isn't my boat's forte. I can't cross the channel without running the engine to charge my service battery without AIS, Radar, Depth, chart plotter or radar transponder. I do what I can and keep the best lookout I can manage. It's served me well for the last 20 years or more. It's nice to know I can be seen by both huge container ships and channel islands ferries if needs be.
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Strangely, we always got by using the old octahedrals, which work well enough in most circumstances.
Like with a motorbike, I tend to assume the big 'uns aren't looking or down't care, so it's mostly down to me to see them and avoid as necessary.
I prefer to rely on eyeball and stay in the pub in poor vis, rather than beleiving that a few hundred quid of electronics will make me invincible.
 
lw395 said:
I prefer to rely on eyeball and stay in the pub in poor vis, rather than beleiving that a few hundred quid of electronics will make me invincible.
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Me too, but you get caught out sometimes and then you have to do the best you can. Sailing a 75'er with radar was paradoxically worse than my own wee 26'er in like conditions 'cos we could see all the big buggers out there and how close they were passing us in the fog. Last year, coming back from Alderney on my own boat, vis closed in suddenly and my only contact was via the VHF. A huge container ship passed about half a mile behind me and I barely caught sight of it. I'd spoken to the OOW and he's identified my vessel on his radar. +1 for the Cyclops.
 
dunedin said:
.....As the rig won't allow a passive reflector on the front of the mast now adding a passive reflector to the backstay to supplement the "hoist in fog" one.
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Careful with this; mounting on the backstay, depending on how it's done, can leave the reflector some way off the vertical, which with some reflectors can seriously affect efficiency. According to Echomax, preferred mounting for a passive reflector is below a spreader.
 
This "near-vertical" requirement comes up a lot.

If those little skinny cylindrical things truly worked in the vertical aspect (not sure they do), one might consider a 3-unit installation with one fitted to the mast just above the radar and one to each of the D2s. This way one would be near enough vertical at all times.
 
dom said:
This "near-vertical" requirement comes up a lot. "
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Yes it does. For a short while I had a Firdel Blipper on Snark, suspended from the stbd spreader it hung more or less vertically which was OK I suppose. The casing eventually split, i suspect it had filled with water which had frozen over winter but who knows. When I saw what was inside.......

"If those little skinny cylindrical things truly worked in the vertical aspect (not sure they do), one might consider a 3-unit installation with one fitted to the mast just above the radar and one to each of the D2s. This way one would be near enough vertical at all times.
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Ah but the don't, do they?
 
Topcat47 said:
Ah but the don't, do they?
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That's the problem - they're seriously patchy! My solution id to use a 2" Plastimo tube (certainly for making a racing boat reg compliant), but to add one of those clunky Echomax 230 jobs when when cruising. As you say the tri-lens is prob best of the passives, but my thinking is that the Echomax augmented by a skinny Plastimo tube approaching vertical as the boat heals is prob another way of achieving much the same.
 
I once worked in a lab where other people were working on Radar Warning Receivers.
It might be nice having a sectored display as I think some military aircraft have?
Klingons on the starboard bow etc....
The alarm thresholds might give big ship at say 2NM, small boat/fishing boat at 0.5NM.
Of course the military have them linked to chaff rocket launchers and so forth....
 
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