racing this morning - was it sense?

wotayottie

wotayottie

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Inshore waters was 6 to 8 and the weather lived up to the forecast for once. 35 to 40 kn steady, gusts to 50 with one boat recording 60. And in the Bristol channel it rapidly became wind over tide. The result was as rough as the proverbial bears bum.

The turning mark was through some overfalls round a spit buoy and maybe 200 yards away from where 2 tugs were struggling to keep a drill rig under control.

Yet half the fleet set out, including some fairly light 26 footers, no doubt like me not wanting to let some other headbanger get an advantage in the series. And for the small boats, it would have been survival conditions.

We all made it with some breakages - and all of us ended up retiring. But now sat quietly at home I am wondering if it really was responsible to go out. It's one thing to be caught in bad weather, it's another to deliberately go out in it. We might have created a rescue situation.

What do you think? Would you have gone?
 
Stayed home!

No I wouldn't and didn't go out today. We stayed aboard in harbour and had a good day out yesterday before the foul stuff arrived. Not into racing but surely going out in 35knots plus for nothing but a race for points was daft to say the least! Bet the coastguard are glad few others were out and about today too.
 
When to go racing?

If you think you can cope with it, go. I attribute most of my experience to the years when we competed in the N I Offshore Championship.
Starting out at 7 pm on a Friday night to go round Aisa Craig Or the Isle Of Man via the South Hunter Or the Ayr DZ buoy, if you wanted to win the series you had to go no matter how little you disliked the conditions or the forecast. However you had the reassurance that there were other similar boats sailing the same course so there was some element of safety in numbers, when the forecast was good the fleet increased threefold. Surfing with the kite through the Ramharry race in the early hours taught you how to avoid broaching too often in big seas. The biggest problem was persuading some of the crew to go off watch so that you had someone half awake to take over in the morning.
I would never have gained the confidence or the experience I have if we had not been serious competitors, it also taught you how to look after your gear because if you lost a kite or bent a boom you were not going to win.
Nowadays the series still runs but as day races on shorter courses with a Sat morning start.
 
well done

Instead of worrying about what might have been, take confidence from the fact that you've been out, you have experienced testing conditions and safely returned, as have your fellow competitors. What you now learn from this and can use in the future is invaluable.

Breakages: would you have anticipated them before you went out?
When you fix the items, your boat will be better prepared for meeting testing conditions in the future and therefore more seaworthy.

Over the years, by racing, I've experienced far tougher conditions than I may have encountered cruising/day sailing only. It is only foolhardy if you, the boat and the crew are not properly prepared. There are also occasions when I've gone out when races were cancelled due to high winds but where I was confident that the boat and crew were capable of handling the conditions and some needed to build up their experience.

Again, well done and don't in any way feel guilty about it
 
Yeh, should have been no problem good on yer for giving it a go! After all if things got really dangerous there is always the RNLI, there happy to come out in any conditions to help sort out the mess, arnt they?
 
I agree with GardenShed on this one.

Providing you don't get too ambitious all at once there's nothing wrong with racing in heavy weather. It is not a big risk with a boat & crew you trust and it becomes less of a risk the more you experience heavy weather together.

You could just stay in the marina whenever the forecast is above F4. But if the forecast is wrong and Scotty refuses to beam you back to the marina, you'll be in far bigger trouble than if you'd pushed the limits of your crew's experience sensibly beforehand.
 
It's the Skippers call, but I'm not convinced "some headbanger getting ahead in the series" is a relevant consideration.

There's also the issue of peer pressure on less able skippers following those who perhaps should know better, or consider the wider picture.

There is a marvellous question I ask myself in circumstances when doing something hazardous and where I might be doing something silly: "What would the cornoner say?"

That's not to say you shouldn't push your limits, but there is a line between informed risk and foolhardiness and it's different for everyone.

Chris
 
Sounds like you have a pretty good race oficer, prepared to let skippers make their own decisions.

A personal bugbear of mine is the habit of Solent race offices of canning racing as soon as the needle touches 30.
An awful lot of boats don't even have reef points in their inshore mains any more, as we know that racing will be cancelled if we need to reef. We actually do have one, but the only time we've reefed on the way out to the start this season they sent us home.
So there are a lot of sailors, who've never raced in 40kts.
Which makes the race officers less likely to start racing.

But as to if you should have gone...

You are the only person who could, or should, answer that question. The responsibility for the safety of the boat rests with the skipper.

A question - if the forecast, and likely conditions, are the same next week, will you go?
 
Before you left Cardiff barrage you will have seen the following sign. I don't think anyone can decide except you. I'm not being critical of your post on here as you may get some information which could influence you in the future.
Allan
 
Was it sensible?

No, of course not.

Have I done it?

Yup, and enjoyed every minute of it.

Trick is to gauge and manage risk, not to believe that things can be zero-risk.

That said, there are some principles here that only the skipper on the day can answer: is the boat well-found; do the crew have sufficient experience and the physical strength to cope; is the proposed sailing area well clear of a lee-shore; if things go pear-shaped is there shelter within a short distance?

If the plan is to go out and then rely on the RNLI, then that's cr*p risk-management, don't do it.
 
wotayottie said:
What do you think? Would you have gone?
Click to expand...
In the right boat I would've gone ... I have raced in the winds we experienced yesterday morning - but only in a dinghy (singlehanded). I was quite happy being out there because I knew that we had dedicated patrol boats out that would pull me (if not the boat) back to shore if I had a real problem.
I did have my big boat out yesterday morning - but it was strictly motor only and LJs were on at all times - that said, it was un-eventful and at no point did I actually feel like we were in danger (although the anchor was ready to be deployed as was the genoa).
 
Theres one school of thought that if you never go out in the rough stuff how will you cope if caught out?

The fact that they all retired and got in unaided is a tribute to their seamanship but if a mishap had occured and someone lost overboard or injured the decision made to sail would have to be justified.
 
Greenwichman said:
That said, there are some principles here that only the skipper on the day can answer: is the boat well-found; do the crew have sufficient experience and the physical strength to cope; is the proposed sailing area well clear of a lee-shore; if things go pear-shaped is there shelter within a short distance?

If the plan is to go out and then rely on the RNLI, then that's cr*p risk-management, don't do it.
Click to expand...

Your second paragraph I think is the key point. Out of a fleet of boats, there will be some, even several, who will base their decision on "if he's going we must, otherwise we might lose points to him", that is a bad call, not basing the decision on boat/ability/crew etc. ANY boat that goes to sea in challenging conditions (based on skippers decision) should ONLY do so if they can be self supporting. Its not right that anyone should put to sea reallying on any rescue service to get them out of the poop.

Lets be honest, when its 8 gusting 9 is the passage that is a race essential? How would the coroner view the decisions to put to sea or to stage the race, if things went disastrously wrong?
 
High up in the racing rules (I think in the first 4) is that you must render assistance to another competitor in distress (and distress doesn't mean that he was last at the gybe mark). I take that to mean that every competitor is a potential rescue service and whilst we race without intending to need them, it is one of the primary backup plans (just after making your own way back in!). I've almost canned a race prior to the start when another competitor was having difficulty righting and the patrol boat was struggling too ...
We are fortunate that where we launch is generally sheltered, so unsure competitors can launch, venture out into the foray then turn tail and return home if they're not happy - this builds up their experience and confidence whilst not causing any problems with the rest of the fleet.

I don't believe anyone should go out expecting gear failure - but it does no harm to anticipate it.
 
flaming said:
Sounds like you have a pretty good race oficer, prepared to let skippers make their own decisions.

A question - if the forecast, and likely conditions, are the same next week, will you go?
Click to expand...

We work a different system - no race is ever cancelled for weather. I guess the club take the view that as soon as they do that they are subsequently vulnerable if they race and it goes tits up. With the current approach it's all down to the competitiors and the club can wash their hands of it should problems occurr.

Would I go again? Probably, on the basis that nothing broke and we were ahead of the whole fleet when we were the last to retire. Hopefully the new OOD would not set a course through the overfalls next time.
 
It would have been madness off the S coast at about 10 am yesterday. Not sure what the BC was like but I wouldn't have considered it. Sounds like there was a macho element - he's gone out so I will too.
 
Ah - if you're at all unsure - then wait till someone else has gone out - have a look how they are coping then make a decision - helps if you know who that someone else is!
I wouldn't have taken our boat out of Chi harbour yesterday morning - the bar would've been a nightmare + its a good sail to the shelter of the IOW! However, out of Cowes could've been fine
 
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