Racing Rules re Use of Extending Bowsprits

[savageseadog]

Are yachts allowed to leave a bowsprit extended when not actually in use? It's possible for a boat to gain an overlap using a bowsprit if extended if that's the case. I understand there's nothing in the RRS but under class rules it may be the case but would that then apply to a mixed IRC handicapped fleet?. Anyone know please?

 

[Birdseye]

As far as I can see, yes they are. Rule 50.3 talks about outriggers not being allowed but excludes bowsprits used to secure the tack of a sail. "Used" not "in use". And there is a further rule that makes it clear that you cross the finish line when any part of the boat or crew croisses it so that includes the tip of the sprit.

If a class of boats had removeable bowsprits then either the NoR or the SI could require them to be stowed as indeed our own SI require no overhanging anchors.

 

[GrahamD]

I don't think it is legal because equipment needs to be in its usual position when establishing an overlap or finishing.Eg a boat neck and neck with another cannot let its spinnaker halliard out so that the sail crosses the line first. Therefore in an asymmetric boat with an extending bow spirit its normal position is extended when using the kite and retracted when on white sails. When a boat has a fixed bowsprit, such as some skiffs, it is in its normal position

 

[flaming]

Are yachts allowed to leave a bowsprit extended when not actually in use? It's possible for a boat to gain an overlap using a bowsprit if extended if that's the case. I understand there's nothing in the RRS but under class rules it may be the case but would that then apply to a mixed IRC handicapped fleet?. Anyone know please?

As I understand it...

If you aren't constrained by class rules or SIs (and I've seen it written into the SIs frequently) then there's nothing to stop you from leaving it out, or getting it out early. However, overlap is a different matter.
Overlap is judged on hull, crew and equipment in their normal position. So extending it when you otherwise would not, in order to gain an overlap, would not count. If however you simply decided to start the race with it out, and left it out, then you could argue that it is in it's normal position.

The grey area would be a boat extending it's pole on the approach to a windward mark, in preparation for the hoist, is that its normal position or not...? If she didn't do the same at every windward mark, then you would expect a protest Comittee to find against her IMO.

 

[ShinyShoe]

"Clear Astern and Clear Ahead; Overlap One boat is clear astern of another when her hull and equipment in normal position are behind a line abeam from the aftermost point of the other boat’s hull and equipment in normal position. The other boat is clear ahead. They overlap when neither is clear astern. However, they also overlap when a boat between them overlaps both. "

The key word is 'normal position'

I would say the best way to find out what normal means would be to take it to the protest room... ... But if I was in the room I would be arguing the normal position for a retractable sprit is retracted unless the sail is up...

 

[savageseadog]

I would have thought these "modern" gadgets have been around for a while (probably centuries) so the rules would have been clear.

 

[ProMariner]

For finishing time, when any part of the crew or boat in normal position. So, if a boat is beating both to start and finish a race, she can only claim to have finished a race when the sprit crosses, if she also started with the sprit extended.

For mark room, proper course etc, no such definition applies, so an overlap is present when any part of the boat is overlapped, hulls, rigs or crew, when entering the zone.

Extending the pole just to gain an advantage could make you guilty of R2, unfair sailing. Most one design classes already have a class rule in place which covers when the pole must not be used. Leaving it out as a jousting pole is dangerous, un popular, and potentially costly.

Some race boats have shorter, fixed sprits, they are always out, always count as a fixed part of the hull.

 

[Birdseye]

By extending bowsprit I assume you mean the old fashioned bowsprit that can be brought back inboard in port but is always out when the boat is sailing. In which case no problem. If you mean the sort of prong that you see on say a J109, then you might have an argument as to what is the "normal position" if you are talking overlaps or finishing lines. Depends on the point of sail doesnt it?

 

[bbg]

I agree with what flaming says - but I would expect most crews would want to prepare the bowsprit before entering the 3 length circle, unless there was a reason not to. At that point you are getting very close to the mark and want to be ready to hoist. Of course it depends on the system for deployment, but I would have thought it would make sense to have it out before you enter the circle. And make sure you do that even when there are no other boats around.