Racing/collision rules ?

Ah, you didn't say you'd tried to alter course away from him, that changes everything!

In which case he was clearly not keeping clear as he was required to by rule 11, so should be DSQ.
 
Ah - now, if you want to shout back - shout rule NUMBERS at them - not the words - this'll confuse the hell out of most of them (with the exception of those who live and breath racing - who wouldn't put themselves in that position in the first place!) ... and by the time they've worked out what rule you're quoting you should be in the clear once more ... /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 
Am I showing my age re the rules, but I would see B, in establishing a close overlap from behind and to windward had sailed himself into a perilous position and has little defence. In open water, A has every right to uncurtailed luffing, up to, but not beyond, head to wind, with no regard to proper course or the boat B. Under control or out of control, and the proximity of other boats to windward is irrelevant. This might seem ungentlemanly but should be anticipated by B. Indeed, in team racing, a vicious luff, with no warning, would be a normal response. These luffing rights, in my day, were only curtailed by "mast abeam", but I've an idea that might have changed. In addition, B seems to have made contact when going through head to wind, when it is incumbent on him to keep clear of boats sailing a course. Has anything changed?
 
Yes, things have changed.

The right to luff is still there, and still to head to wind, and mast abeam has gone, but you can't just shove the helm over any more, you have to give room and time to repsond.

It's a bit of a game changer in team and match racing for sure.
 
[ QUOTE ]
you can't just shove the helm over any more, you have to give room and time to repsond.

It's a bit of a game changer in team and match racing for sure.

[/ QUOTE ]
Thanks, yet another 'elf'n safety spoilsport idea then; (mutter mutter!! )
 
As I understand what you say, he established the overlap to windward from clear astern. It was in open water with no marks or other boats close by to complicate things. He was therefore the give way boat when clear astern and was still the give way boat when windward boat.

The give way boat was obliged to keep clear throughout and was obliged to give you sufficient room for normal 'small' manouvres. You can't establish an overlap to windward that is so close that there is immediate contact if the leeward boat makes small alterations of course. There's no obligation to hail in these circumstances under the rules but it is a good idea to tell them firmly they're not keeping clear.

The leeward boat can luff the windward boat up to head to wind when the overlap was established by the windward boat but must give the give way boat time and opportunity to keep clear. There's no get out clause if you broach out of control and don't give the windward boat time to keep clear.

The give way boat doesn't have to tack to avoid you, he can just pinch up a bit as necessary.

Rule 14 requires you only to avoid contact when it is clear that the other boat is not keeping clear, but it sounds like you attempted to do that.

It would depend upon how close he was when establishing the overlap and how radical your rounding up was. You could protest, but it is easier to protest if you have a good understanding of the rules.

Make sure you get plenty of statements from the crew and photos of the damage (to both boats if poss). It is easier for the other boat to change their story for the insurance company if it isn't documented in a protest.

edited: I hadn't noticed that contact occured as he was tacking. The argument there is the contact was caused by his change of course not yours, so it sounds a much more open and shut case. The requirement on the right of way boat is that it allows the keep clear boat time to manouvre promptly in a seamanlike manner. Not realising that the stern of a boat swings out more than the rear of a car is not seamanlike.
 
Isn't it too late to protest now anyway? Don't protests have to be registered within a certain time limit?I any case I thought a valid protest would be required to start with a hail of "Protest" and the breaking out of the B flag?

My remark about 0.1mm being enough room was meant to indicate that in all respects if the windward boat doesn't collide with or impede the leeward boat if they were 0.1mm at their closest then that's good enough. The windward boat will have to approach in the expectation that there could be a luff or broach waves and so on. 0.1mm is OK 0 isn't.
 
You're right it'll be too late to protest if the OP didn't hail & display the red flag. (I have a vague recollection that the sailing instructions for the RTIR described rules for protesting but I can't remember what they are. Maybe you have to report it on the VHF too.)

Anyway, all the more reason to record the evidence if there's going to be an insurance claim.
 
I spoke to the other party this evening. His view is that if I'm not prepared for knocks then I shouldn't be racing. My stance is he didn't give me room but he says it was half a boat width and he's happy to sail alongside some one and shake hands, my reply was OK but not necessarily in those conditions.

He also stated he saw me struggling in the gusts before hand and was preparing to tack. His view is it's my fault for rounding up.

Strangely for all his "racing" background I still went RTI 30 mins. quicker in same handicap boat on my first go.

I'm chalking this one up to experience.

Cheers all
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I guess it was the RTIR. As long as there's no expensive damage.

In proper racing it sounds like he's someone who should be challenged with a protest or two. You often don't have to do much to show you won't be bullied.

I think another poster recommended the Bryan Willis book for learning the rules. I'd recommend that too.
 
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