Racing at Night. Rules Question

savageseadog

savageseadog

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I know that IRPCS apply at night and replace some part of the racing rules of sailing in most sailing instructions, so what is it that you can't actually do? The reason I ask is that while trying to pass to windward of another boat to windward at night the boat we were trying overtake came up from her previous course and forced us to pass to leeward. I should point out that we were simultaneously closely passing a lighthouse sat on a rocky shoreline to which I would have ended up hitting if the other yacht didn't give me water. There was perhaps 2 boat lengths between the yacht I was overtaking and the lighthouse and one boat length would have been risky as there are outliers.

I have always thought luffing at night wasn't permitted, however is luffing even against IRPCS, day or night?
 
savageseadog said:
is luffing even against IRPCS, day or night?
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I'm not a racer so I'm not certain what you mean by "luffing" in this context, but if it's changing course in order to make a boat to windward of you (and hence give-way) head further to windward himself, then no you can't. As the stand-on vessel, you must, er, stand on, not go jinking all over the sea. This is why Colregs pedants object to "right of way" - you don't have a right of way, you have an obligation to stand on.

Pete
 
Main difference between colregs and RRS is a) a leeward boat can't luff to defend her wind if a boat overtakes her to windward under colregs, and b) there's no rule 18 (mark room), so an inside give way (RRS: keep clear) boat has no rights at a mark under colregs.
 
The Colregs (IRPCAS ) generally replace Part 2 of the Racing Rules at night, presumably because in the dark you can not see whether the other vessel is racing in your race or not.
Under the Colregs you as overtaking vessel had a duty to keep clear, and tother yacht had a duty to "stand on".
So I guess if you were in open waters, well clear of the slower yacht, and it changed course to come up and interfere with you, then you would have a case. (If you could prove it....) But from your brief description it sounds more like you were trying to slip through a pretty narrow gap, and probably would have difficulty persuading the jury that you were keeping clear.

All IMHO, where is Flaming when you need him???
 
Keen_Ed said:
Main difference between colregs and RRS is a) a leeward boat can't luff to defend her wind if a boat overtakes her to windward under colregs, and b) there's no rule 18 (mark room), so an inside give way (RRS: keep clear) boat has no rights at a mark under colregs.
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That's very clear thanks. As a point of interest why is luffing not allowed under IRCPS.

I know that the other boat would argue they were just sailing a "proper course" and the turn was just pilotage but I know what they were doing, a protest would have been a waste of time and it's probably just as well I didn't force the issue as I would be looking at something more serious.
 
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Did the sailing instructions for the race actually state that the IRPCS apply at night? It is pretty common for them to do so but not automatic.

You can no more luff another racer under the IRPCS than you could luff a passing car ferry.

Might be a bit too late to protest them now, but you could try. You should in the future. Because you avoided a collision you have nothing to lose in a protest.
 
savageseadog said:
That's very clear thanks. As a point of interest why is luffing not allowed under IRCPS.

I know that the other boat would argue they were just sailing a "proper course" and the turn was just pilotage but I know what they were doing, a protest would have been a waste of time and it's probably just as well I didn't force the issue as I would be looking at something more serious.
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Which course are they sailing?

Are they racing? In the same class as you?

As previously stated you were overtaking.
 
savageseadog said:
That's very clear thanks. As a point of interest why is luffing not allowed under IRCPS.

I know that the other boat would argue they were just sailing a "proper course" and the turn was just pilotage but I know what they were doing, a protest would have been a waste of time and it's probably just as well I didn't force the issue as I would be looking at something more serious.
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Why would you need to luff if you were not racing? You are required to be the standon vessel in an overtaking situation. If you were racing you have to comply withe IRPCS not the RRS at night.
 
dt4134 said:
Did the sailing instructions for the race actually state that the IRPCS apply at night? It is pretty common for them to do so but not automatic.

You can no more luff another racer under the IRPCS than you could luff a passing car ferry.

Might be a bit too late to protest them now, but you could try. You should in the future. Because you avoided a collision you have nothing to lose in a protest.
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The ISAF rules of sailing state:-

When a boat sailing under these rules meets a vessel that is not, she shall comply with the International Regulations for Preventing Colli- sions at Sea (IRPCAS) or government right-of-way rules. If the sail- ing instructions so state, the rules of Part 2 are replaced by the right- of-way rules of the IRPCAS or by government right-of-way rules.

I guess when sailing at night you need to be sure that the other vessel is sailing in a race as stated previously, but basically i think what it is saying is that the IRPCS takes precedence over local race rules

Unfortunately a few racing folk seem to think that because they are racing the IRPCS doesnt apply to them (sits back and awaits inevitable howls of protests and flames )
 
With the Caveat that although I've raced at night, I've never actually had a close quaters situation - I don't think you can luff.

My take has always been that if colregs apply after dark, then the overtaken boat must therefore burdened to maintain its course until the overtaking boat is clear.
 
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