Questions on Fibre Glass -Ocean Deep

[Gludy]

These are some shots of some of the current work on Ocean Deep.
They originallt wanted to do this work in the water but after an examination by Andy Ball they thought better of it and started it out of the water.

To me, this seems a lot of work for what they are calling monot cracks - mind you the chap doing the glass work who really know his stuff and is a superb workman called them fractures.

The starboard side had these cracks - none on the port side but they have also worked on the port side.

They say its a seam that had a pre-gel filler in it. They worked back inside the fibreglass removing glass then worked out again in glass.

Is this normal?

I cannot see how the original filler could have been structural - you can see the pale line behind the glass where they have removed the filler. Below is am internal shot as well.

Whilst I will never use the boat again I still have to make sure all is OK as long as she remains my property. So I seek opinions on the work being done to cure some gel coat cracks.

 

[Heigaro]

Picture 1 and picture 2 look remarkably like ££££ signs!! Coincidence?? /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[Gludy]

Yes they do don't they!!!!
/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[johndove]

Had a look last week at Ocean Deep after reading all about her, Saw the guy working on the hull.

To me it looks as if the hull mould mybe used and made for a different model. To fit the deck they have another mould which when matches the hull to your deck type. There's no way other than a join it would crack like it did.
When they made it they I guess they glassed (or maybee bolted flange) on the inside (not enough) but used gelcoat and fillers on the outside.
By not glassing it both sides there was a weakness with some flexing which cause the outside join to crack.

Would be worth having it re-glassed on the inside or at least more layers

Another point on seeing the pictures there seems to be a gray gelcoat under the blue. I hope the blue has a good thickness which makes repairs more possible.

Must say looks like they guy who's doing the job is doing correctly, shame they did not when building her! He's done the easy bit so far. Let's hope he makes it invisable.

Good luck Paul, hope things sort out sooner than later.

 

[jfm]

Paul
Can see how this happened. They have to butt join 2 hull mouldings, which are say 12mm thick. Glassing the inside with patches of fibreglass is easy, though they skimped on even that alas. But even if you do that right you then have to decide how to fair the outside. Two choices: (a) fill the gap with pre gel filler, then put a top coat of gel, and then make it smooth. On day 1 this will look perfect, but it will inevitably crack unless the patchwork grp inside is very heavy and thick. Option (b) is to grind out a very wide V on the outside and fill that with glass and resin, and finally apply gelcoat and fair it.

(b) is loads stronger and is how proper boat yards fix repair panels into crashed boats. I've seen them do this in Antibes and it's fantastic - as strong as new and invisible when done. But takes loads of skill and time

OD's builders have done a double whammy - used option (a) and skimped on the weight of the patchwork. So OD has had a notch in the hull and obviously when any stress is applied to thehull panel it "kinks" at the notch, hence cracking gelcoat

The repairer guy seems to be doing it right. If he is good the repair will look invisible, and will be done how it should have been done originally. Hence I'd ay this is the smallest thing on your list to worry about. Nevertheless I totally agree with you that it is utterly appalling that work like this should be needed to a new £1m boat

Good luck - I admire your current strategy of "rejecting" the boat without actually rejecting it. Smart move. Best answer for trader is buy boat back off you, get you to agree to shut up (which I'm sure you would), then fix it properly and sell it so as to take only a relatively small £££ hit. Good luck with it. Problem is that the folks you are delaing with seem not only dishonourable and incompetent, but stupid too....

 

[Fire99]

I can't comment on the technical aspect of this but as people 'in the know' have said, this specific 'repair' seems to be being dealt with in the correct way..

However, as already said, this is a New £1m vessel and this is yet another piece of the jigsaw of faults...

I think focusing on the specifics like this any more than is entirely necessary will just be more emotional turmoil..

The sooner a settlement is made on this, the sooner you can get back to the important issue, enjoying boating..

Lets hope an end comes to this asap.

Nik

 

[Gludy]

Thanks a lot for all those constructive comments.

Their fibre glass guy Mick who they contract in is the best at his job I have ever seen. he is simply superb at it and I respect him very much, so it does not surprise me that he is doing it right.

I paid for full depth blue gel coat - cost circa $42,000 extra for it and it does seem as if most of it is grey.

My strategy is now clear- a full survey is underway this Tuesday and Tarquin can choose which path they want to take. Refund the full cost plus my direct expenses or face an ever increasing publicity campaign to spread only the truth so that boaters can make their own judgments if they want to deal with them. Even this settlement will have cost me thousands of hours of work and grief plus going on for 2 years non-boating .... so there are no winners.

Yes if they settle I shall drop the subject forever. I have to give them that for facing up to their responsibilities. In my opinion, if they do not settle they will have no customers left within a matter of months. The choice is up to them, I am not changing now and all I am doing is using truth as a tool to counter their lack of balance sheet.

I do not think anyone can say I did not try to get it right but there comes a point when it’s a problem too far. So the way forward is set. The worst that can happen is that Tarquin go bust and I am left repairing the boat at my expense in another yard. If that is what has to be then I can live with that rather than spend another day of dashed hopes.

However, until they make the decision, I have to still treat the boat as mine, which it is and still ensure she gets the best work done on her. Hence the need for advice and ideas.

I think I shall have to throw some sort of forum party when I do eventually get to sea again in a boat I am happy with – I have my eye on one that is ready to go and would do me for a few years.

The forum has been the heart of the publicity to date – it has helped me so much in bringing problems to the fore. The pressure did work to get us as far as we are and the increased pressure with TV down their necks has also had a big impact. Above all the realisation that they have lost sales – lost sales they really thought they had. I think they blame me for those lost sales but I have pointed out to them that they should blame the quality of product and service that I have received … it’s a self inflicted wound. All I have done is tell it as it is and as I can prove.

 

[Sixpence]

Paul , if I spent one tenth of what you've spent on this boat I would be up in arms and tearing heads off shoulders if I got this treatment . I can only say I'm glad it's not me being treated like this and I don't know how you've got the patience to put up with it . Others I've talked to asked me to let you know that they're also watching events but they're not in a position to respond

 

[Gludy]

I am told by SWMBO that it has taken its toll on me.

I think the worst thing of all is having to fight every step.

I remember getting back to Swansea crippled after 6 months of hell at Emsworth - calling in the alignment experts and giving the proof to Tarquin that the engine/shafts were so much out of line that the engine mount adjustment could not cope plus the power, all 1400 hp of it, was not bolted to the boat.

The response was that the thrust brackets did not need the bolts as chock fast held it plus the alignment must have changed in the maiden voyage as the engine bedded in and therefore was not a warranty issue!!!! I hard to argue in writing for a good time to get both points accepted. In fact I had to pull some clever stunts to prove my point. All a fight, all so ‘blinkin obvious’ for the first 6 months yet I still had to fight. That has been the tiring bit.

Even now I have to fight over petty. petty points - it is like walking through a swamp - very tiring.

Now I have decided on the strategy I just want to get free and have done with it.
I am aware that a few in the marine trade are following the saga. It’s a bit of a cliff hanger really – will Tarquin pay up or will they face a very big and increasing publicity blast that would bring the truth of my situation to the attention of a very large audience of potential customers? The ball is firmly in their court and pressure is mounting that they are not even as yet aware of.

Although Tarquin may want to paint me as a little mad - I am not, well at least I was not when the process started /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif I would rather than just provide to me what is my legal and moral right but if they do not, then at least I can warn everyone else so they can make an informed decision about wanting to deal with them. I will then, as best I can, get my boat finished off elsewhere.

They are launching a new range of boats with the third model , the 70 footer due in soon. What a backdrop for the launch!!!

 

[Sixpence]

Paul
As most have figured out by now , I'm not exactly quiet on the internet and I'm amazed by the fact that these people seem to think that trying to treat you as some kind of idiot is going to work in their favour . They haven't yet realised the half of it . I know of at least two people with the available funds that have been guided to your posts and bought something else rather than risk following in your footsteps . I don't have the finances to push for any kind of advertising on the same scale as you have , I wish I did , but I do have a big mouth on the internet and although a lot of people in here think I'm a bit of an idiot , my big mouth quite often gets a message over without chucking loads of money at it . Best wishes to your good lady and just try and let her know that you'll be back to normal soon
Best wishes
Dave

 

[nyx2k]

there's always a hidden cost with all the stress of this sort of thing and that's the strain on a marriage. i really hope when this gets resolved that you and your partner get a well deserved holiday and a new boat you can be proud of. best wishes

 

[Gludy]

Thanks to both of you for those kind wishes - yes it does place a strain on relationships - the weekly cycle of having our weekends dominated week in week out for 16 months by trying to get a boat fixed has been immense.

We are now going to escape for a break instead of our planned Biscay trip but there can be no compensation for the stress and total disappointment of what should have been a great experience - buying my first new boat.

I do not think that I am by any means the first customer to have had this cycle of disappointment and frankly many could not cope with it either selling the boat quick or taking it away and getting it fixed. I am not the first to use publicity - the poor owner who had to walk up and down outside the Trader boats at Southampton Boat Show with a placard was an attempt to use publicity. I am, I think, the first to use the Internet to place the pressure.

If they paid up now I do not know if I can even stop the TV spot - after all they have worked on the subject and been very helpful. However the report would be as nothing and also positive compared to what they risk if they do not settle.

I have had a lot of advice from the forum. It has influenced me. I have often not been able to relate back the events going on in the background but I now believe that my current strategy is one I can see through and live with if it goes wrong and they go bust. If it works then I will buy a boat straight away – I already have some plans on that, although it will not be new just almost new.

They seem to think I want them to go bust – I really do not because I want the refund plus costs. What they must, I hope, realise is that I am willing to see this all the way. They can not hide behind their weak balance sheet, which itself is a bit surprising after 27 years in business – they have to decide if they wish to escape their legal and moral obligations and go bust or refund me.. In my opinion, it is that simple.

Tony Chappell told Glenn that these few forumites and this publicity does not hurt them. That made me list some losses that I actually could list. That seemed to wake them up because deals that they thought they had in the bag were no longer in the bag. That is their fault because all they had to do was refund me long ago. That way they would probably be another 8 or so boat sales better off by now without counting future losses. That was a big mistake by them …. Lets hope they have learnt from it.

I am told that they think trial by TV or internet is unfair and not the way to do things. My answer to that is that hiding behind a weak balance sheet is not the way to do things either. Also I publish all their emails/letters to me unedited. I give them total right of reply. Nothing is hidden. It the truth that is hurting them, no more, no less.

It also all makes for some good soap opera
/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[nyx2k]

if you have use of a boat then go out for a few days, if not it may be tempting to go and buy a little cruiser for around 40k to use for this season and sell it on when the other issues are sorted.

 

[Gludy]

Tne absolute cheeck of it - I have just opened the new Trader brochure and there is a apicture of Ocean Deep on the trader 575 page.

Thie images were taken when they took tyhe boat out to swing the fluxgate only to spend most of the time in high speed runs do photo shoots using my fuel!!!!!

When i found out I complained and told them yjheu had no right to do what they did and not to use the photos taken at my expense without my permission - it made no diffeence and they just go ahead and used them time after time.

I thnk that just shows their total lack of respect for the customer -- totally amazing.

 

[Sixpence]

I'd like to say that's unbelievable , but I think we're pretty clear on their attitude now , it sucks , how on earth have this lot managed to stay in business at all I wonder

 

[FAITIRA]

Sympathise, I delivered a band new Trader to Scotland a few years ago and could get no help, even re info regarding fuel consumption etc, I was not greatly impressed.

 

[Gludy]

Well I have been contacted by another chap who stopped a 64 sale - including mine that makes four 64 sales lost and about 7 boats to my knowledge.

 

[Bajansailor]

Perhaps TC really wants to see his company fold up?
But if so, why would he want that?
He has lost a few million pounds worth of orders, simply because he refused to provide a reasonable (or even adequate) level of after sales service for one of his customers.
But it would appear to me that he is not bothered in the slightest about this.
As Alice said, 'It gets curiouser and curiouser'.

 

[wakeup]

Yes I received the same brochure in MBY, i notice they are badging more than half the fleet excludding the 575 and a couple of others now with GenII badge, I guess they'll put down your issues to being a GenI boat......in fact TC should have been a software saleman, 'it's all fixed in the next version sir honest!'

 

[Gludy]

I think TC thought that publicity would not have much effect but over tha last month it has and he now knows it.

The TV programme asking questions, seeking interviews etc has also added more pressure. So I really think they would like to get rid of me. I think they have made a huge mistake so far in the way they have acted - after all it took week after week of public repeat questions to get the mouldy mattress replaced .... such a small thing yet huge public resistance.

For them do the honourable thing to me is going to cause them pain - I think their mind is slowly getting focussed on the problem of increasing publicity and the effect on orders. They have already lost orders that well exceed the cost of dealing with me properly.

In their brochure there is an aerial shot of their yard. It features the familiar blue hulled 64 that keeps coming back from Cowes and my boat Ocean Deep standing in its natural place on the hard – out of the water. That is in addition to the OD shot taken on a photo shoot using my boat against my will.

No – TC IMHO does not want to go bust this time – he is introducing a new range of boats – the 70 footer is due in late but it must be coming soon and the last thing he wants is to fold - he wants to sell.

I am not seeking any more than the law and moral duty entitles me to – TC has to choose. Its a stark choice, its a very simple choice. This time it will cost just a bit more than the 4 kitchen rolls so far offered. An apology may be asking too much - so the money will do TC.