Questioned by RNLI re not wearing lifejacket.

Robin said:
I had a mooring next to theirs and even with a much better tender would not have gone ashore without LJs that day and very probably would have waited for an improvement had we been on board.
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I once refused to go ashore for a crew member at a Small Scottish Village - I had only just made it to the boat with the first crew and both wind and waves were increasing constantly. Fine for me, but my unfortunate crew had to spend an evening in the local pub with the increasingly drunk auxiliary coastguard hurling abuse at him and, by proxy, me.

I'd do (or rather not do) the same again, though.
 
EdBeynon said:
But most of the rest of the 200,000 don't go on boats.
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No, that is the twenty or so people who drown in boating accidents in a typical year compared with the four million or so who are involved in some form of boating.

You could have asked for clarification rather than jumping to a wrong assumption.
 
DogWatch said:
Are you saying people shouldn't wear life jackets?
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No.

But I suspect that most people would accept that it is ridiculous to suggest:-
"Lifejackets prevent drowning. It is possible to drown while having a bath. Therefore it is essential to wear a lifejacket at all times while having a bath"

It is just as ridiculous to suggest:-
"Lifejackets prevent drowning. It is possible to drown while boating. Therefore it is essential to wear a lifejacket at all times while boating".

It is one of the ironies of our obsession with "health and safety" that we are losing the ability to carry out risk assessments and now seem bent on a policy of risk elimination -- regardless of what we sacrifice in the process
 
Quite.
In the same way I assess the risks involved in leaping to the boat when the tender is still 6ft away against the risks involved in stepping from the tender when alongside and make a decision based on the likelihood of each possibility having a positive outcome.
Those who would suggest there are hard and fast rules for all situations are not only taking away our fundamental right to choose for ourselves what risks we may expose ourselves to, but also diminish our ability to make those judegements.
 
Coincidence...?

longjohnsilver said:
Came ashore from our mooring in Dartmouth in our 2.8m RIB and was immediately accosted by local RNLI chap who asked why I wasn't wearing a lifejacket? Was initially somewhat taken aback but answered that it was my choice not to wear one, he countered with did I know about the shock of falling into cold water, didn't like to say that the water in October is warmer than any other time of year. Explained that as a diver I am well aware of water temperatures. With that he then questioned my partner in the same accusatory fashion.
Is this common place? I appreciate all the arguments for wearing a lifejacket but I choose not to and I don't expect to be accosted by the local RNLI. I wasn't sure how I felt as he walked away muttering something or other, not really angry but a little annoyed to be questioned in a fairly aggressive manner. Has not happened to me in 25 odd years of boating, still in 2 minds as to whether he was being a bit of a pr@t or actually trying to help. After speaking to us he didn't hang around to speak to other dinghy crews.
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This could just be a coincidence, but...
http://www.ybw.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2685025&postcount=1

:)
 
Ubergeekian said:
I once refused to go ashore for a crew member at a Small Scottish Village - I had only just made it to the boat with the first crew and both wind and waves were increasing constantly. Fine for me, but my unfortunate crew had to spend an evening in the local pub with the increasingly drunk auxiliary coastguard hurling abuse at him and, by proxy, me.

I'd do (or rather not do) the same again, though.
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Once sat on the mooring on a really wild day when some Fastnet Race entrants had sailed in and picked up moorings nearby, intending to wait out the gale before heading out again to continue the race. The local RNLI inshore boat came by and was offering to take people ashore rather than them take their tenders, nice thought. In our case we were happy to stay on board anyway as we were not planning to go home that day and the mooring itself was sheltered enough. Another time having returned from St Vaast in a full gale that wreaked havoc amongst the Channel Race fleet and gave the RNLI boats some custom, we were picked up from the mooring by the club launch, they knew we were expected back, saw us come in and even delayed closing the bar for us...

Then another time before we lived local to the boat we spent the Friday night on the floor of the club lounge rather than go out to the mooring until conditions improved.

Proper risk assessment though in all cases.
 
Lakesailor said:
Quite.
In the same way I assess the risks involved in leaping to the boat when the tender is still 6ft away against the risks involved in stepping from the tender when alongside and make a decision based on the likelihood of each possibility having a positive outcome.
Those who would suggest there are hard and fast rules for all situations are not only taking away our fundamental right to choose for ourselves what risks we may expose ourselves to, but also diminish our ability to make those judegements.
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Oh I agree with you in principle, practical self risk assesment is fine, there is however a problem with this in that some of those who choose not to wear lifejackets do so not because they decided the risk to their lives was acceptable thus wearing LJs was not needed, but rather they did not want to look cissies and the risk they were worrying about was to their apparent street cred in the yachtie community.

It is good that the debate has been stimulated because at least some who opt out of the wearing of lifejackets at almost all times may change their opinions and it may become more acceptable amongst the more macho of our community to wear them when the risks are higher.

One of the depressing things about this discussion though is that some in our community seem to think that being accosted by a perhaps ver zealous volunteer is grounds for the use of physical violence.

Being a grumpy old fart myself I wear my lifejacket when I think it is a good idea to do so, and don't care a whatsit what others think of me.
 
Lakesailor said:
Darwin Rules apply.
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Indeed but there is the problem for those that have to both clear up the mess and tell relatives. When he was alive one of my little brothers was a fireman and his experiences from both fires and road accidents changed his view of life. Therer is a need to consider the rescue services in your risk assesment, do you want to make some one tell your wife you have died because you though wearing a LJ was cissie
 
maxi77 said:
Indeed but there is the problem for those that have to both clear up the mess and tell relatives.
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FFS, If I am doing something that poses a significant risk of dying, I'm afraid I am not likely to worry about the possibility the ambulance man might have to change his overall after scraping up my remains. I have my own selfish reasons (like being frightened that it might hurt) for wishing to minimise the risk.

Similarly, if I am doing something that does not pose a significant risk, then I do not decide not to bother with safety equipment just because it impresses anyone with my machismo: I do it because clumping around in steel toe caps, a crash helmet, a flack jacket, kevlar trousers, a lifejacket, safety harness, and gas mask is a bit over the top for putting the bins out.
 
maxi77 said:
... they did not want to look cissies and the risk they were worrying about was to their apparent street cred in the yachtie community.
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Does this mean I need to change my avatar?

Saw Ellen Macarthur at Beaulieu on Thursday. She very neatly and quietly turned and sailed her Corribee off the fuel pontoon under genoa. Oh... and she was wearing a life jacket.
 
longjohnsilver said:
Came ashore from our mooring in Dartmouth in our 2.8m RIB and was immediately accosted by local RNLI chap who asked why I wasn't wearing a lifejacket? Was initially somewhat taken aback but answered that it was my choice not to wear one, he countered with did I know about the shock of falling into cold water, didn't like to say that the water in October is warmer than any other time of year. Explained that as a diver I am well aware of water temperatures. With that he then questioned my partner in the same accusatory fashion.
Is this common place? I appreciate all the arguments for wearing a lifejacket but I choose not to and I don't expect to be accosted by the local RNLI. I wasn't sure how I felt as he walked away muttering something or other, not really angry but a little annoyed to be questioned in a fairly aggressive manner. Has not happened to me in 25 odd years of boating, still in 2 minds as to whether he was being a bit of a pr@t or actually trying to help. After speaking to us he didn't hang around to speak to other dinghy crews.
Click to expand...

You're famous LJS. In this month's YM, no less:

http://www.yachtingmonthly.com/podcasts/510475/libby-purves-podcast-don-t-be-a-nag-rnli

Next question, is Libby Purves a lurker, or a poster? If the latter, which one?
 
Yes, the RNLI guy was OTT. I have been through all this before with crash helmets and motorbikes. Only the stupid would not wear a crash helmet when riding a powered two wheeler. For me it is as natural as dressing in the morning. Wearing a lifejacket is the same. I choose to wear one whilst sailing.I may not put it on untill the warps and fenders are stowed, but once out of harbour it is on, and stays on when on deck. If you cannot understand the benifits by now, and are a non wearer you are not to be convinced. Untill compulsion you are able to make a choice.There is a RNLI sticker on our boat about lifejackets. It says"USELESS UNLESS WORN". This appears to sum it up nicely. Good Sailing in 2011, Rotrax.
 
rotrax said:
Yes. I have been through all this before with crash helmets and motorbikes. Only the stupid would not wear a crash helmet when riding a powered two wheeler.
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There must be an awful lot of stupid people in the USA, and Italy, and many other countries, then!

And where do you draw the line? How about a battery-powered push-bike? How about a push-bike? How about a kiddies push-along scooter? Roller blades?

And why stop at a crash-helmet? How about leathers? Gloves? Boots? Will kevlar jeans do?

This whole business of the benefits of safety equipment being "obvious" is grossly oversimplified.

How trivial must the risk be before you can ignore it? How minor must the consequences be before you can dismiss them? How unreliable can safety equipment be before you question whether it is adequate? And how expensive must it be before you feel justified in saying "no, thank you: I'll take my chance".
 
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