Question Re Portugese Regs?

[Dougal]

Portuguese friends are renovating an old wooden 3.35mtr vessel of some sort. It seems that to satisfy Portuguese regs, they MUST register the boat, but they are unable to locate either any old paperwork OR the previous owner. They have 5hp Yamaha outboard for it. Is there any reason why I can't register it here in the UK on perhaps the SSR for them? They also must have at least 3rd party insurance, which is why I saw no reason not to help them.

Can anyone think of any reason I should not? They are good and trustworthy friends.

Thanks

 

[GrahamM376]

Portuguese friends are renovating an old wooden 3.35mtr vessel of some sort. It seems that to satisfy Portuguese regs, they MUST register the boat, but they are unable to locate either any old paperwork OR the previous owner. They have 5hp Yamaha outboard for it. Is there any reason why I can't register it here in the UK on perhaps the SSR for them? They also must have at least 3rd party insurance, which is why I saw no reason not to help them.

Can anyone think of any reason I should not? They are good and trustworthy friends.

Thanks

The Portuguese are sticklers for paper trails, I tried to sell an outboard there but it couldn't be registered to a boat as I didn't have the original receipt from new!

Problem with the SSR is that owners have to be resident in the UK and that would leave you as the registered owner. Two possible ways around this, after registration in your name on SSR, have a bill of sale from you to them which would then establish them as new owners. Other way is to forge paperwork.

 

[sailaboutvic]

The Portuguese are sticklers for paper trails, I tried to sell an outboard there but it couldn't be registered to a boat as I didn't have the original receipt from new!

Problem with the SSR is that owners have to be resident in the UK and that would leave you as the registered owner. Two possible ways around this, after registration in your name on SSR, have a bill of sale from you to them which would then establish them as new owners. Other way is to forge paperwork.

Forge paperwork, ? No surly a miss print Graham

 

[GrahamM376]

Forge paperwork, ? No surly a miss print Graham

 

[Dougal]

Of course its not forgery! I can easily be the boats 'owner'. Also though, will SSR need a hull number? Its basically just a large rowing boat with an outboard motor.

 

[Tranona]

If they are resident in Portugal then the boat will have to comply with local regulations. The authorities might accept an SSR on a boat that has sailed there from the UK or the UK owner has brought with him, but unlikely with the kind of local boat you have described. One of the joys of living in a state that was not so long ago a dictatorship and old habits die hard.

 

[rotrax]

Having just registered our New Zealand boat on the SSR I seem to remember the MINIMUM length is 7 metres.

 

[Dougal]

Having just registered our New Zealand boat on the SSR I seem to remember the MINIMUM length is 7 metres.

Well that would simplify things;-)

 

[Tranona]

Having just registered our New Zealand boat on the SSR I seem to remember the MINIMUM length is 7 metres.

Not the case. There is no minimum, but 24m maximum. Many people put their small trailable boats on the SSR, particularly if going to France as registration is required for both inland and coastal waters.

Does not help Dougal's mates problem as suspect the local authorities would be down on him like a ton of bricks if they saw him using a clearly local small boat with an SSR number on it to avoid local registration.

 

[GrahamM376]

Not the case. There is no minimum, but 24m maximum. Many people put their small trailable boats on the SSR, particularly if going to France as registration is required for both inland and coastal waters.

Does not help Dougal's mates problem as suspect the local authorities would be down on him like a ton of bricks if they saw him using a clearly local small boat with an SSR number on it to avoid local registration.

Quite a few UK SSR flagged Portuguese owned cruising boats around, using UK addresses for registration although some I've spoken to admit it's a friends address. This may change if, as has been reported, the Registry are tightening up and requiring proof of residence. If/when the Portuguese policia maritima check them, they have their correct names on the SSR documents so no problems.

The OP's scheme is in my opinion a non starter. If the boat is registered in his name, whose name will the insurance be in? If in his and there are any claims, they will be against his record. When the true Portuguese owners have to produce paperwork - which they will on occasions, how do they explain being in possession of a UK boat not registered in their name but maybe the insurance is?

 

[25931]

Quite a few UK SSR flagged Portuguese owned cruising boats around, using UK addresses for registration although some I've spoken to admit it's a friends address. This may change if, as has been reported, the Registry are tightening up and requiring proof of residence. If/when the Portuguese policia maritima check them, they have their correct names on the SSR documents so no problems.

The OP's scheme is in my opinion a non starter. If the boat is registered in his name, whose name will the insurance be in? If in his and there are any claims, they will be against his record. When the true Portuguese owners have to produce paperwork - which they will on occasions, how do they explain being in possession of a UK boat not registered in their name but maybe the insurance is?

I don't see any problem if the OP is prepared to accept the responsibility. Obviously all the paperwork must be in his name. He must make sure that his friends abide by alol the local regs.
There is no reason why a foreigner can't buy a local boat and register it in his name - he's not avoiding tax, just remember to pay light dues.

 

[Dougal]

Many thanks for all the feedback folks. Generally speaking, good friends as they are, the Portugues authorities are not, so i'm not getting a good feeling about this. I really feel for them but I need to pull back i think. If anyone gets any other ideas, i'd be most grateful to hear them.
Ta!

 

[GrahamM376]

Many thanks for all the feedback folks. Generally speaking, good friends as they are, the Portugues authorities are not, so i'm not getting a good feeling about this. I really feel for them but I need to pull back i think. If anyone gets any other ideas, i'd be most grateful to hear them.
Ta!

I think you're right. Having been married to Portuguese for 45 years and spent a lot of time there, I am no longer surprised by the way everyone has to jump through hoops to get anything official done. Their laws seem to be based on - they accuse you, prove you're not guilty.

If it were genuinely your boat, registered on the SSR (as it would have to be when visiting) and insured and, you decided to leave it in someone's care to look after for you, with written permission for them to use it, then there are no problems whatsoever with the authorities. You would just have the "risk" element if it was involved in an accident where you as the owner could for some reason (under their laws) be held partly liable.

From what you say about the boat, there is no way they can register it until such time as they have a complete paper trail from new, boat and end engine, including copies of bills of sale between previous owners. Preparing such a paper trail shouldn't be too difficult

 

[jeanne]

It is clearly possible to put any boat on the SSR. For proof, look at Bruce´s new bucket dredger, Mudosaurus, and it´s hopper-barge, 'tender to Mudosaurus'!

 

[Heckler]

It is clearly possible to put any boat on the SSR. For proof, look at Bruce´s new bucket dredger, Mudosaurus, and it´s hopper-barge, 'tender to Mudosaurus'!

From what I can see, all Bruces boats are ssr.
S

 

[Cloven]

Of course its not forgery! I can easily be the boats 'owner'. Also though, will SSR need a hull number? Its basically just a large rowing boat with an outboard motor.

No need for hull number. I have an SSR for a 12ft sailing dinghy that I keep in France.

 

[Dougal]

So do we. Trouble is, Portuguese authorities seem MUCH tougher and more rigorous it seems. Where are in you S Brittany? We there too LRB. I ask as the name looks familiar.

 

[Tranona]

No need for hull number. I have an SSR for a 12ft sailing dinghy that I keep in France.

There is space for a HIN number on the SSR, but as those only became compulsory in 1998 there are loads of boats around that do not have any identification.

 

[Cloven]

So do we. Trouble is, Portuguese authorities seem MUCH tougher and more rigorous it seems. Where are in you S Brittany? We there too LRB. I ask as the name looks familiar.

Yes, at LRB. Pontoon C4, Hunter Channel 323 "Seachange". Where are you? Will be over w/c 3 May to get the boat sorted for the season.

 

[Dougal]

Of course! Know your boat well. Been there a while haven't you? We're the rather sad looking Evasion 32 (motor sailor) 'Somewhere' on H20
Arriving 28th April