Question re changing anchor

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Deleted User YDKXO

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My boat has a 30kg Bruce anchor which doesn't work well in many Croatian anchorages, particularly those with weedy stony seabeds. It seems to me that the Bruce is not good at cutting through weed to get a bite in the seabed. On my last boat, I had the same problem and I changed the standard fit Bruce anchor for a Delta which worked excellently in the Balearics where I was then. I want to upgrade the 30kg Bruce on my current boat to a Delta too, in the hope that it works as well in Croatia as it did in the Balearics.
I have tried to get a 32kg Delta in Croatia but it seems that the delivery time would be weeks but I have been offered a 40kg Delta from stock. The problem is that the shank of the 40kg Delta is appreciably deeper than the existing shank of the 30kg Bruce, by about 50mm, and I'm concerned about it getting wedged in the existing closed bow roller

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Changing or modifying the bow roller is not an option in Croatia because its an original Ferretti part and I dont think they have stainless steel fabrication facilities locally. One option is to remove the top roller of the closed bow roller assembly. What does the panel think about doing this? I guess the top roller is there to ensure the anchor doesn't jump out when it is stored and to feed the chain through when using the anchor.
One thing is for sure. I've lost confidence in the Bruce and since I plan to do a fair bit of overnight anchoring this season so I want an anchor which works!
 
In my opinion you must keep the top roller.

It will account for 80% of the strength in that it stops the sides opening and allowing the bottom roller to fall out.

I think it would also be helpful in not allowing the chain to bounce out but hopefully you will never need to anchor in such conditions.
 
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Daka may have a point there but I would get rid of the top roller - many bow rollers incl my own do not have this.

I agree wrt Delta too - excellent kit and works well for me over the years so very confident in its ability to keep me where I want to be.

Just ensure the anchor is well home and stoppered off with a preventor when stowed and in case Daka is correct take the load with a snubber affair to a cleat to take the wt when deployed. When heaving up make sure the cable is 'up and down' with little wt to min. risk of the cheeks opening up on the roller. QED
 
mjf said:
Daka may have a point there but I would get rid of the top roller - many bow rollers incl my own do not have this.

I agree wrt Delta too - excellent kit and works well for me over the years so very confident in its ability to keep me where I want to be.

Just ensure the anchor is well home and stoppered off with a preventor when stowed and in case Daka is correct take the load with a snubber affair to a cleat to take the wt when deployed. When heaving up make sure the cable is 'up and down' with little wt to min. risk of the cheeks opening up on the roller. QED
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Ditto with above.

I had a bruce and swapped to a Delta and saw the same benefit. You will find it wraps around the bow roller more acutely than a bruce and as long as is tight against bow roller it can't jump up and over. So you could easily either remove the top roller, or remove the roller and leave the pin to maintain the strength but provide clearance. Or perhaps have bent pin made in UK that you can fit yourself. Or keep the roller but have two side plates made that pick up the exiting holes the extends the height of the roller which again you can have made in UK and easily fit yourself.
 
wakeup said:
or remove the roller and leave the pin to maintain the strength but provide clearance. Or perhaps have bent pin made in UK that you can fit yourself. Or keep the roller but have two side plates made that pick up the exiting holes the extends the height of the roller which again you can have made in UK and easily fit yourself.
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Good point re keeping just the pin. I didnt think about that and it would provide more clearance. Yup, I could also get the sideplates extended and they could probably do that locally. It would look a bit of a bodge job but I could live with it.
Pleased to hear other thumbs ups for the Bruce to Delta change. Gives me confidence to go ahead with it
 
Deleted User said:
Good point re keeping just the pin. I didnt think about that and it would provide more clearance. Yup, I could also get the sideplates extended and they could probably do that locally. It would look a bit of a bodge job but I could live with it.
Pleased to hear other thumbs ups for the Bruce to Delta change. Gives me confidence to go ahead with it
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Errr let me qualify that... 6kg Bruce for 6kg Delta so not in same class for comparison.
 
Mike,

how much chain length do you have ?

had some trouble anchoring in Croatia myself,
putting a longer and heavyer chain cured the problem.
that was with a bruce anker,
but agree that a delta anker might be better for the anchorages in seaweed.
 
Just to confirm that the plan as it stands gets my thumbs up, despite my previous pessimistic view.


Drill out the top roller, replace with a pin through the drilled delta.
when/if ever you have to anchor in the rough replace the top roller using the same pin or even bolt it back on.
 
Being a raggie I may be barking up the wrong tree ...

Wouldn't the top pin/roller stop the anchor from jumping about when you're bouncing along at 25+knots ?
If so - whatever you do, you need a method to prevent new anchor from jumping about ...

Our anchor has a hole in the middle of the shank to take a pin - as described above - which will hold the anchor in place no matter what - the only time I can see that becoming helpful is if we're out in the rough stuff and bury the nose - but as our anchor is stored in the anchor locker it's a bit of a null issue for us!
 
fireball said:
Being a raggie I may be barking up the wrong tree ...

Wouldn't the top pin/roller stop the anchor from jumping about when you're bouncing along at 25+knots ?
If so - whatever you do, you need a method to prevent new anchor from jumping about ...

Our anchor has a hole in the middle of the shank to take a pin - as described above - which will hold the anchor in place no matter what - the only time I can see that becoming helpful is if we're out in the rough stuff and bury the nose - but as our anchor is stored in the anchor locker it's a bit of a null issue for us!
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You could put a drop nose pin through the existing hole for the roller and drill a hole in the delta. However the delta design hooks backwards more significantly than a bruce and providing the anchor is tight against the roller it cannot jump off. I use a chain hook and some rope to a cleat in the anchor locker on mine to ensure that tension is maintained at all times and it has never jumped out of the bow roller (yet) and have been through some lumpy stuff where my anchor locker lid flew open when hitting a wave, but that is a different matter.
 
Deleted User said:
My boat has a 30kg Bruce anchor which doesn't work well in many Croatian anchorages, particularly those with weedy stony seabeds.
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Typical of Croatian bottom.
A fellow boater which I met during my Adriatic days just reshaped his bruce, making the pointy bit supposed to bite the bottom MUCH sharper. According to him, after the mod it became the best anchor he ever had (and he tried many - decades of experience in Croatian cruising, starting from sailboats).
Worth a try, if nothing else because it costs close to nothing...
...and the bow roller would still be fine, of course! :D
 
While buying a new anchor you could also think about upgrade the stainless D shackle to a larger galvanised steel one.
Stainless ground tackle isnt allowed in many harbour authorities (Ive not seen so many boats broken free but the ones I have seen have all been stainless) and a small stainless shackle is very difficult to keep closed.
 
Mike
I would as others have said get made (in UK) a U shaped yoke/bridge to bolt to the existing roller pin holes (using round head socket screws with the heads on the inside of the channel where the anchor goes and dome head nuts on the outside, so there is no hard edge to catch anything) so creating a little bridge with enough height for the Delta's shank. Or judging by your pic you can undo the front part of the roller assembly and bring it to UK for modding by welding and grinding

I think the Delta is loads better than Bruce in this scenario. However I think the Ultra is better than the Delta and if you can get one I'd buy the Ultra. I regret not speccing an Ultra on my current boat but I forgot till it was too late. I first used an Ultra in Croatia and found its holding to be pretty remarkable. I have since played with the scale model Ultra in a test sand tank, comparing directly with Delta, and imho it is better. But if the Delta is the only sensible "in stock" choice then sure go with that becuase it will be better in your waters than Bruce. And of course the weight upgrade will be good too

I dont wish to be a doom monger but I fear you will have other geometry problems fitting a 40kg Delta (or Ultra, which is V similar) on that roller, due to the length of the shank and the kink 1/3 way along the shank. I hope I'm wrong but I fear that as a minimum the Delta point with hit the hull if you wind it in, and therefore you're gonna have to stop winding before the front-most roller is snug in the 90degree bend (armpit) on the bottom of the Delta shank. Hope I'm wrong and that it all fits ok. Nick h has a 40 Delta so if you want me to nip on (sorry nick!) to get you some dims and photos let me know. Actually nick himself might be aboard this weekend, I think
 
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BartW said:
Mike,

how much chain length do you have ?

had some trouble anchoring in Croatia myself,
putting a longer and heavyer chain cured the problem.
that was with a bruce anker,
but agree that a delta anker might be better for the anchorages in seaweed.
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I've got about 100m of chain. Agree than I can put a lot of chain out and the weight of the anchor and chain will hold the boat in light to moderate winds but, if you're going to rely on weight alone, you might as well just hang a concrete block off the end of your chain instead of buying an expensive anchor:) The problem is that I simply can't get the Bruce to set in many anchorages in Croatia. In Polace 2 weeks ago, I tried 5 times in 5 different locations to get the anchor to bite and I eventually gave up and used Bourbon's quay. The same happened off Lopud and Krknas and these are recognised anchorages and last year, I dragged in the Pakleni islands. The only anchorages where the Bruce has got a bite is where there is mud. I know Croatia is more difficult for anchoring but I'm hoping the Delta will be better
 
I would as others have said get made (in UK) a U shaped yoke/bridge to bolt to the existing roller pin holes (using round head socket screws with the heads on the inside of the channel where the anchor goes and dome head nuts on the outside, so there is no hard edge to catch anything) so creating a little bridge with enough height for the Delta's shank. Or judging by your pic you can undo the front part of the roller assembly and bring it to UK for modding by welding and grinding
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I'm probably going to overwinter in Italy so I can get the bow roller modded there but in the meantime, yup a bent or U bolt will do the trick. I think the locals are capable of that

I think the Delta is loads better than Bruce in this scenario. However I think the Ultra is better than the Delta and if you can get one I'd buy the Ultra. I regret not speccing an Ultra on my current boat but I forgot till it was too late. I first used an Ultra in Croatia and found its holding to be pretty remarkable. I have since played with the scale model Ultra in a test sand tank, comparing directly with Delta, and imho it is better. But if the Delta is the only sensible "in stock" choice then sure go with that becuase it will be better in your waters than Bruce. And of course the weight upgrade will be good too
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Yup, I've heard good things about the Ultra too but I was lucky to find the Delta. If its not in stock, shipping from the UK or other EU country is a DHL and customs nightmare

I dont wish to be a doom monger but I fear you will have other geometry problems fitting a 40kg Delta (or Ultra, which is V similar) on that roller, due to the length of the shank and the kink 1/3 way along the shank. I hope I'm wrong but I fear that as a minimum the Delta point with hit the hull if you wind it in, and therefore you're gonna have to stop winding before the front-most roller is snug in the 90degree bend (armpit) on the bottom of the Delta shank. hope I'm wrong and that it all fits ok
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Actually I'm fairly confident on that. I've downloaded some dimensions from the internet and the distance between the 'crook' and the point of the 40kg Delta is not dissimilar to the 30kg Bruce so I believe that the point of the Delta wont hit the hull. The shank of the Delta is more central than the Bruce and there's quite a lot of clearance anyway
 
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