Question on Raymarine autopilots (and their remotes)

[MapisM]

I was rather surprised to realize recently that the Raymarine autopilot on my boat, which is almost 10 years more modern than the Furuno I had on the previous one, is missing what seems to me a very basic functionality, i.e. the capability to steer the boat using the a/p, rather than the wheel.

I know, I know... Before someone ask, no, there's nothing wrong in using the wheel.
It's just a matter of habit, I suppose: I've not used the wheel for years, and I got used to steer with the a/p instead, so I'd like to keep such possibility.

Now, the a/p I've got includes one "Type 400" course computer and two "ST6001+" control units.
After some searches, i found a couple of remote controls that seem compatible with my system: the "S100 remote" and the "Smart Controller". The latter is a bit more sophisticated and has a larger LCD screen that can show some of the data available on the SeaTalk network, to which the receiver (which is the same for both remotes) must be connected.

All well and good, but the manual is unclear about whether these remotes, aside from controlling the course while the boat is in "Auto" mode (or setting "Track" mode and let the boat follow the plotter route), can also be used to just steer the boat.

So, if anyone who is familiar with either of these remotes (actually I prefer the simpler S100, because I like its small size and I'm not interested in the larger screen, but as I understood both have the same basic functions) can confirm me whether it's possible to simply steer with them, I would appreciate!

 

[Eren]

I am using the SmartController. As far as I know it does not steer while it is not on Auto mode.

When coming to choose the unit, I believe that S100 should be quite OK as well, at least for my usage. Sometimes it is good to see info like depth on the screen but the real plus is to fine tune the course while pootling and enjoying the Med sun away from the helm.

 

[petem]

I'm being really thick but to steer the boat using the a/p don't you select auto then hit the +10 or -10 buttons?

 

[maverickofpoole]

I have the S100 and yes you can steer the boat with the s100 by hitting the arrow keys, it is a bit clunky though.
Full instructions are in this manual http://www.fondriest.com/pdf/raymarine_E15024_quick_guide.pdf

 

[Hurricane]

Last year, a friend gave me a Raymarine Smart Controller
One of these:

So, earlier this year, I connected it to my ST6001/ST6001+/ST6002 (I'm not on the boat so I'm not sure which one I have).
I simply connected the transmitter/received box to the Seatalk (3 wire) network/interface.
I fitted the transmitter in (what I call) my electronics bay - which is under the lower helm and accessible through the ceiling in the main cabin's shower.

It works but.......
It wasn't reliable on the flybridge - I think it is a range problem - distance from the transmitter/receiver unit to the Smart Controller on the flybridge may be too far.
I fitted it because I thought it might be useful when we are pootling - take it onto the foredeck and we would have full control over the pilot.
But the reality is that we don't use it.
As most on here will know, I love my electronics but, for me, there is one stipulation with all this electronic stuff.
IT HAS TO BE EASY TO USE.
Nothing wrong with the Smart Controller itself and is easy to use - it is just that we have repeated displays on the main helm/flybridge and the Smart Controller is not as quick to use as the main autopilot heads.
I might have another try sometime - after all it is fitted and works.

The Smart Controller has a lot of other functions - other than the autopilot, it repeats most of the data on the Seatalk bus.
Actually, IMO, this device is more useful as an Autopilot so the smaller S100 might be more appropriate.

AFAIK the Raymarine pilots of this era don't allow you to steer without engaging the autopilot.
So, the procedure is - enable the Autopilot by pressing the red "Auto" button and then steer using the +10 -10 +1 -1 buttons.
BTW - press the +10 and the +1 (or -10 and -1) at the same time and the pilot will turn about 90 degrees (on a sailing boat this would be "tack").
The Smart Controller and the S100 just repeat these functions - you still have to enable the Autopilot to use the "steering" function.

Generally speaking though, my advice is "don't bother"

 

[MapisM]

I'm being really thick but to steer the boat using the a/p don't you select auto then hit the +10 or -10 buttons?

Sorry, I should have explained better.
Of course when in "Auto" mode you can steer the boat, but that's a somewhat more sophisticated functionality, not just a pure wheel replacement.
What the a/p does after you press +10 while you are on course X, is steer to stbd as much and for as long as necessary to alter your course, and after the correction it keeps the boat on the new course, i.e. X+10.

What I mean by steering with the a/p rather than with the wheel is the possibility to press some left/right button for as long as necessary to steer the rudders to port/stbd as much as desired, staying there till the next correction is done, either with the same buttons or with the wheel.
Raymarine calls that function (which as I understand is available with the rotary knob of the ST8001 control unit) "Power Steer". Furuno doesn't give it a specific name afaik, but it does just that when you press port or stbd buttons while the a/p is in stby. I half recall to have seen it called also "Tiller" function in some boat, and operated through a joystick.

Apropos, Raymarine also used to make a so called "SeaTalk Joystick" which did just that, and it also offered two operating modes, i.e. (1) keeping the boat steered for as long as the joystick was kept pushed either way, coming back automatically to center rudder as soon as the joystick was released, or (2) what they called "bang-bang" mode, where the rudders where not automatically re-centered upon joystick release, requiring a joystick push on the opposite side to do that.
But that thing is not available anymore - and it was meant for fixed installation, anyway.

Interestingly, coming back to S100 or the SmartController, according to Maverickofpoole it should be possible to steer with the S100 arrow keys - btw, thanks for the link, but I already found that manual and noticed that according to page 6 left and right buttons can be used for power steering, but it's confusing when it adds "in pilot mode", because as I understand pilot mode is either auto or track (or zigzag, wind, etc. but let's stay out of that).
So, my doubt is that as soon as you select pilot/auto mode, the left/right buttons should make course adjustments, which as I said at the beginning is something different from power steering.

In fact, according, Eren and Hurricane, the remote only allows course corrections, i.e. does NOT work as power steer. And I'm 99% sure that whatever the S100 does, is also available with the SmartController (if anything, it's the opposite which ain't true).

Soooo... Who is right?

 

[MapisM]

Generally speaking though, my advice is "don't bother"

I see your point M, and I agree, sort of.
But I didn't mention another reason why I'm looking into this power steering functionality: in the DP, the rudders are driven by a pump that only goes on whenever the a/p requires a correction either side. The wheels are not servo-assisted and are directly connected to the hydraulic cylinder that moves the rudders arm. The pro of such setup is that it's fail safe, as the wheels can work regardless of any a/p or pump problem, but the con is that wheels become a tad hard to move at P speed.
So, being a lazy git, this is actually what inspired me the look for a way to use the a/p power steering rather than the wheel.
Doing that through a remote just seemed like a logical/nice addition, trying to kill two birds with one stone, so to speak...

 

[Newbroom]

Last year, a friend gave me a Raymarine Smart Controller
One of these:It works but.......



So, the procedure is - enable the Autopilot by pressing the red "Auto" button and then steer using the +10 -10 +1 -1 buttons.
BTW - press the +10 and the +1 (or -10 and -1) at the same time and the pilot will turn about 90 degrees (on a sailing boat this would be "tack").
The Smart Controller and the S100 just repeat these functions - you still have to enable the Autopilot to use the "steering" function.

Generally speaking though, my advice is "don't bother"

Press +10 and the +1 twice and the pilot will turn you onto the reciprocal of your course.

 

[prv]

I have the S100 remote. It doesn't do "power steering", only 1-degree course adjustments by pressing the buttons when in auto mode. You can control the boat this way after a fashion, but it's quite clunky and you can't turn very fast because each button-press only adjusts 1 degree. I use it to keep myself in the middle of the river while putting out warps and fenders single-handed, but that's at about 4 knots. I would not want to try to drive a motorboat at any speed with it.

Pete

 

[prv]

So, being a lazy git, this is actually what inspired me the look for a way to use the a/p power steering rather than the wheel.

Possibly you could avoid the autopilot brain and just have a switch to power the actual pump directly?

Pete

 

[benchmark]

I have the S100 remote. It doesn't do "power steering", only 1-degree course adjustments by pressing the buttons when in auto mode. You can control the boat this way after a fashion, but it's quite clunky and you can't turn very fast because each button-press only adjusts 1 degree. I use it to keep myself in the middle of the river while putting out warps and fenders single-handed, but that's at about 4 knots. I would not want to try to drive a motorboat at any speed with it.

Pete

+1

 

[Hurricane]

I see your point M, and I agree, sort of.
But I didn't mention another reason why I'm looking into this power steering functionality: in the DP, the rudders are driven by a pump that only goes on whenever the a/p requires a correction either side. The wheels are not servo-assisted and are directly connected to the hydraulic cylinder that moves the rudders arm. The pro of such setup is that it's fail safe, as the wheels can work regardless of any a/p or pump problem, but the con is that wheels become a tad hard to move at P speed.
So, being a lazy git, this is actually what inspired me the look for a way to use the a/p power steering rather than the wheel.
Doing that through a remote just seemed like a logical/nice addition, trying to kill two birds with one stone, so to speak...

OK
So here is another question
How often would you run at P speed without the AP?
I set the autopilot virtually all the time.
Really only jumping between "Track" mode and "Auto" mode.

OK sometimes it is fun to turn the wheel at P speed but really, we always have the AP enabled.
Our FB helm is fully fly by wire - I can just turn the helm and (if enabled) the AP will resume the course (back to the track if in Track mode) or back to a heading (if in Auto mode)
Even coming into a marina - especially one where you haven't been before - the AP is just like having another person on board - you can give it commands whilst you are doing other things.
The only problem using this technique is that you DO have to remember to disable it prior to any manoeuvring!!!

Another Tip
I set my response level to 3 (on my system - later versions have more levels) to make the AP helm more responsive keeping it better on course.
You can set this up in the defaults but a quick temporary method is to press the +1 and -1 buttons at the same time for about 1 second.
You can then set the Response level.
A default installation would be set for a sailing boat where power is less available than our boats.
It doesn't cost us much power to have a high response level driven by our big lumps below.

 

[MapisM]

OK
So here is another question
How often would you run at P speed without the AP?

Yup, that's far from being a crucial feature. As I said, it's just something I got used to have, more than a real need...

Regardless, based on the last feedbacks, it seems that I had reasons to be in doubt about the manual explanations:
Obviously "power steer" is mentioned in a somewhat confusing way because it's a function that the unit doesn't handle, aaarumph! :ambivalence:

PS: thanks for the tips anyway.
I didn't play with any settings yet just because strictly as an a/p, the thing works just perfectly and it keeps the boat straight as an arrow. But the "power steer" usage I had in mind is something different.
Apropos, thanks also to prv for his idea in post #10, which might well be the easier and simpler solution. I'll investigate that!

 

[Eren]

Another Tip
I set my response level to 3 (on my system - later versions have more levels) to make the AP helm more responsive keeping it better on course.
You can set this up in the defaults but a quick temporary method is to press the +1 and -1 buttons at the same time for about 1 second.
You can then set the Response level.
A default installation would be set for a sailing boat where power is less available than our boats.
It doesn't cost us much power to have a high response level driven by our big lumps below.

A quick note about this:

I also like responsive a/p and keep this setting at 3. However Raymarine engineer had warned me that this may tire up the system at long runs and may end up in faulting the system. Therefore I take the setting down to 1 when there is a long passage (200+ nm) and wavy conditions, where the autopilot will struggle to put the boat on track constantly. Just a small note.

 

[Hurricane]

A quick note about this:

I also like responsive a/p and keep this setting at 3. However Raymarine engineer had warned me that this may tire up the system at long runs and may end up in faulting the system. Therefore I take the setting down to 1 when there is a long passage (200+ nm) and wavy conditions, where the autopilot will struggle to put the boat on track constantly. Just a small note.

Didn't know that.
However, I haven't (yet) had any problems and we mostly set the response to 3 for the longer passages.
We have the Sleipner steering system - maybe this kit is good for continual use.
It is noisy but seems to work well.

 

[maverickofpoole]

A quick note about this:

I also like responsive a/p and keep this setting at 3. However Raymarine engineer had warned me that this may tire up the system at long runs and may end up in faulting the system. Therefore I take the setting down to 1 when there is a long passage (200+ nm) and wavy conditions, where the autopilot will struggle to put the boat on track constantly. Just a small note.

I was also told similar from a Raymarine engineer but the way he put it was, if you ask the ap to keep as straight a course as possible your ap pump will be working overtime which will speed up wear and tear. He went on further to say that you should be trying to achieve is a long lazy S in your wake for comfortable cruising, if that makes sense. I use the Cruising setting for general usage unless in the confines of a narrow channel then I would use a more responsive setting

 

[vas]

Don't have Raymarine, but I've heard the same for Garmin. which makes sense tbh, if you go at the pump and see it working and rudders moving slightly all the time, it's obvious it's having a hard time...

I'm mainly posting regarding the original Q as I also find v. annoying crossing paths with other craft and having to disable a/p, shift a bit go on again. Yes I know Garmin have the shadow drive which I haven't installed yet. It wont solve the problem of my relaxing on the f/b and seeing a boat targeting me (or the other way round) as the landscape is such that for the first 40miles of port all craft take exactly the same bearings, avoiding two capes and one isle.
What I'd like is an easy way to shift my boat 50mtrs to port or stbrd but keep targeting the same waypoint. I can sorta do it when chartplotter is managing a/p but if I'm on heading hold, I'm buggered, just changes the heading. Maybe I should install this shadowdrive after all, it's just a messy job cutting hydraulic pipes and bleeding the whole thing again (took me ages!)

cheers

V.

 

[Hurricane]

I'm pretty sure that my pump runs all the time - well there is a timer on it that shuts it down after about 30 secs of no use.
But, under way, I think it is running all the time.

 

[[2068]]

I'm not really happy with my Autopilot.
Even with the response level turned down to "1", it still feels as if it is trying too hard in bouncy conditions with waves at an angle.
It's very accurate, but the constant corrections make me almost seasick.
Response level "6" is hilarious: it's rather like one of those bucking bronco machines that they have at fairgrounds, and is particularly useful if you have people onboard that you don't want to come boating again.
I'm too scared to try response level "9": either the outdrives will fall off, or I will find myself in 1955.

Also, if I encounter a lobster pot, what I really want it to do is "jump to the left" by 100 yards, not start heading off towards the Bay of Biscay, however briefly.

.