Question about bogs again

peteandthira

peteandthira

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I have arrived at the conclusion that my sewage output pipe needs replacing soon. It goes through one or two bulkheads under the floor. I don't want to have to try poking the new pipe through those holes (lots of fnarr-fnarr similes spring to mind here!).

Q1. Does anyone have a great idea for joining the new to the old and pulling the whole lot through from the transom?

As an interim measure while we ban "no.1's" going through it for a week or two, I wish to service our Y-valve which diverts everything to a holding tank. At the moment I can't fully turn it to the holding tank so I suspect it could do with an internal scrape.

Q2: Can I take the front face off the Y valve, (3 steel bolts exposed) scrape it clean with a screwdriver, then hope to put it back together successfully?

Would love to hear from someone who's dunnit (Headmistress perhaps?)

If Smiffy is reading, on this occasion please don't give me a bum steer or else I WILL launch the Stuka! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Pops
 
Can't comment on the Y valve other than 'it depends' (they need regular operation to keep them from calcifying).

As to pulling the pipe through I think your chances are small. Assuming it's calcified it's going to be very stiff, and I've always found that there's huge friction between the pipe wall and what are inevitably sharpish edges from the holes it will pass through - and the more oblique the angle the worse.

In the Carbibbean it's common to use muriatic acid to decalcify. This works well and may clear the valve and make the pipe easier to remove (if you still need to). However I don't know if it's approved for use in your waters.

In future you might want to get your crew into the habit of flushing more to make sure only seawater is left lying in the pipework between uses.
 
I have serviced a Y valve. dont scrape.

remove valve and place in bucket with scale cleaner until clean

pull apart as soon as possible to assist scale cleaner

get new O rings

use some silicon grease and refit.
 
Thanks for your advice chaps, as always. Gloom.

Yes, we are already flushing ten times more than we used to when we didn't know, but it's a bit late now, the horse has already gone.

As for vinegar then, are we talking the brown stuff, the white stuff, neat, diluted, a cupful per flush or a gallon?

I guess I am going to need a vinegar bowser!

Any tips on quantity and concentration greatly accepted.

Pops
 
Muriatic acid is an old name for hydrochloric acid. It is a strong acid and will dissolve the deposits in the pipework quite quickly.

It is commonly available as "brick cleaner" from builders merchants. Dilute it with about 5 to 10 parts of water. Wash any splashes off the skin and mop and neutralise up any spills with washing soda. Wear googles!

Vinegar contains about about 5% ethanoic acid (aka acetic acid) which is a very weak acid. It will take very much longer to remove the deposits, maybe days, rather than minutes but is much safer to handle. It is very useful, though, if used regularly to prevent the deposit building up again.
 
VicS

Thats useful, thanks. I'll see if I can get some and treat it with caution. Do I leave it in the pipe wherever possible? Maybe by following through (Ha ha!) with a flush of acid?

Finally, do you have any idea how long we need to keep this sort of thing going for, before returning to normal ops?

Pops
 
I guess the chief concern is to establish if the pipe is so old or deteriorated that it is letting smells through the fabric, in which case renewal is the only real option. Agreed wuth keeping your pipe warm, butg it will still be a b**** to get on the spigots at each end. See posts passim for hints and tips. Re Y valve, I am assuming it is the big Jabsco jobbie, easy to dismantle and clean. It is amazing how quickly the calcium builds up. If you don't want to take it off completely, a bit of careful scraping can shift most of the gunk, but as with Lavac pumps, a better job is can be achieved by taking it right off and soaking in decalcifier. Vinegar does work where the deposits are not too heavy and it is worthwhile flushing the system through every so often with warm, soapy fresh water and leaving the system primed with fresh water if you are leaving the boat for a while.
 
Unless the hose route from the toilet to the thru-hull is very convoluted (or someone has neatly C-clamped it to bulkheads in places that are inaccessible), you should be able to attach new hose to old and pull both through.

First, warm the ends of the hoses...this makes removing 'em much easier. Use a male-male connector (warm hoses to get them onto it). Make sure the ends of both hoses are cut smoothly...when you put them on the connector you want to butt them tightly together, creating the smoothest unbroken surface possible that can't get caught on anything. Use PVC cement to keep the hoses on the connector...do NOT use hose clamps, they will get caught on something...do NOT use duct tape, it won't hold if you have to pull hard.

Distilled white vinegar will dissolve sea water mineral buildup in hoses, y-valves etc, but will likely require multiple doses if the buildup is heavy...in which case, I'd use muriatic acid to clear the buildup, then weekly doses of white vinegar to prevent future buildup.

All that said, buildup alone is not a reason to replace hoses. Hoses should obly require replacement if they've become permeated with odor (stink) or are so old that they've become so hard and brittle that they're starting to crack.
 
Peggy

I was hoping you might show up, bless you. I really don't want to replace them, they do not smell, and I can see that there is about 3mm of deposit all around the inside of the pipe.

If it can be removed, even slowly and gradually, I will be much happier and will limit my activities to cleaning out the Y valve which definitely needs doing.

I assume then, that this muriatic acid will not dissolve the pipes, fittings and Y-valve? How about the exit seacock and the plastic holding tank?

I presume that the presence of all that sea near the seacock will stop the acid eating that, am I right?

Would you call 3mm "heavy"?

With thanks

Pops
 
[ QUOTE ]
Thats useful, thanks

[/ QUOTE ] Close the seacock or bung up the bottom end and leave it untill it stops fizzing, drain it out and repeat if nesessary until clean. If heavily scaled use it more concentrated to avoid too many repeats.

On second thoughts it might be better not to get in in the seacock, at least not for long soaks.

In future flush through with vinegar periodically, like at the end of every trip, to prevent a recurrence. It can also help to reduce smells, except of vinegar of course.
 
A 12% solution of muriatic/hydrochloric acid will not harm plastic or metal, nor any rubber parts in the toilet either. So mix according to directions, close the seacock, and flush it down the toilet. Let it stand 45 minutes to an hour...open the seacock and rinse out the system.

I wouldn't call 3mm "heavy" at all...in fact, you can most likely dissolve that much by flushing undiluted white vinegar into the hoses (to clean out the intake hose and the channel in the rim of the bowl too, disconnect it from the thru-hull, stick it into a jug of vinegar and pump it all the way through) and allow it to stand in the hoses for an hour or two. But NO LONGER...'cuz vinegar will cause the soft rubber bits in the toilet to swell and distort if left to soak in vinegar very long. And then rinse out the system very thoroughly.

If the y-valve is a jabsco, you don't even have to remove it to clean it out...in fact, the vinegar or acid should do it without any effort on your part). However, I'd replace it with a Whale or Henderson...'cuz they have a "barrel" inside that rotates...the Jabsco has only a very flimsy little "gate" that swings from one side to the other, and it's easy to jam or evern break if anything gets caught under it. So I definitely wouldn't scrape it out with anything that can scratch or score the "gate" or the housing.
 
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