Question 2: Sail Training Suggestions

[Bejasus]

Following on from yesterday's question, I mentioned that I hadn't up until now, done any sail training, now I would like opinions on where I/we should start. The only time I have ever been on a sailing vessel, was a nice return trip to Cowes several weeks ago with a venerable forum member(and no, he didn't sleep through it either). Advice gratefully received from said member, pointed me in the direction of Dayskipper(Sail) which apparently would qualify me to be able to charter in the Med, which seemed quite attractive to me. However, having already stated that I have never had any training, and in view of the fact that a nice Sunday jaunt across the Solent & back in a doubtful F2/3 & calm seas, on one of the quietest days anyone can remember, does not a sailor make, what other advice can you lot, my acknowledged peers in this matter, give.
I.e. Training, crewing etc. I am giving myself 2-3 years before I can even consider myself being able to be confident/qualified enough to be able to take control of previously mentioned Nauticat.
At the moment this will be fulfilling one of my dreams, perhaps the biggest and most ambitious and want to go about things in the correct manner.

One school i spoke to suggesteted that we should start with stage 1 & stage 2 on a keel boat, but is this really necesarry?

Suggestions please.

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[WeeWullie]

Och jist dae it, its nae problum. Dae yin o' yon villa/floilla thingies. Ah've no done it masell but fat BOab his wi' Maggie Broon an she came back roon he came back broon and they baith sailed aff happily up the Clyde in a banana boat!

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[bedouin]

If you are an experienced powerboater wanting to move over to sail, then the keelboat sailing courses make a lot of sense; you would even get a lot from a dinghy sailing course.

IIRC the standard RYA dayskipper courses contains very little about how to sail the boat, it is a lot more about Colregs, berthing under power and so on that you would probably find it very disappointing.

In fact none of the RYA cruising syllabus really covers much about the skills of sailing (as opposed to navigation). A number of schools do advanced sailing skills courses, or introductions to racing, that you might find useful once you have picked up the basics.

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[StellaGirl]

I only started sailing this year when I did my incompetent crew course in the Solent in January. I had only been on a sailing boat a couple of times before this and was amazed at the amount of basic principles there was to learn. I was on a boat with 2 guys who were both doing their Dayskipper and realised then that the CC course was the best decision I had made, as I would never have taken on everything the DS guys were being taught! Everyone is different though. The week after the CC course I went back to the sailing school and did a weekend of "extra" learning just to help my confidence. This was great as I hadnt forgotton anything from the previous week and having read books, understood more of the principles and it improved my confidence no end.

I then joined Crew******* in February and have sailed almost every weekend since. Have sailed on a huge variety of boats with a huge variety of skippers and learnt heaps. One owner has become a good friend and even lets me take his HR352 out without him when I want which is a fast way to learn!

At the end of the day everyone is different and some learn quicker than others. I guess it also depends on what you want to get out of it. I am going to Canaries in 4 weeks and then doing the ARC. I never imagined I would be doing this after less than a year but I have put my heart and soul into sailing this year and this is my reward.

Good luck in whatever you decide to do!!!


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[Bejasus]

Och, mah faither ay telt me it wis a wafer biscuit, nae a banana boat, an did ah think ah wis oan mah faithers yacht. (ah never unnerstood that yin, coz he never hud ane) Mind you, he never hud a zip up the back o' his heid either.

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[jamesjermain]

Two suggestions:
1) Ship aboard friends boats to learn the basics of sailing, helming, boathandling and mangement, then sign on for the Day Skipper theory and Day Skipper Practical couses with the RYA. After that you can move on to Coastal Skipper and Yahctmaster Offshore courses as and when you need them. The RYA says beginnefs can cope with the Day SKipper practical but I woulkd recommend at least some experience before you start.

2) As above but start with the keel boat course. This will teach you much more about actually sailing a boat and you will be a better yachtsman in the long run for it.

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[Bejasus]

1) Friends with a sailboat........hmmm. Nope, unless you count the kind wee manny that took us on a trip on his Oceanis recently.
I am overseas at present but I should have waiting for me at home, a package of RYA Dayskipper & Navigation books & Excersises and I already have the Dayskipper video. I should also be receiving the CD Rom of the RYA theory correspondence courses. This should enable me to do Dayskipper theory.
The problem then is to be able to log enough hours & night passage to enable me to pass the practical.

2) I too believe that it makes sense to do the keel boat courses(3 days each) whilst studying & completing Dayskipper so that by the time I have completed these then I should be able to do the DS practical. Does thet make sense? It is just a bad time of year to start on the practical as the guiy I spoke to doesn't start again, until next April. I suppose I could shop around and see whats running through the winter. Logical progression would be as you suggest to coastal & then YM. BTW do the RYA also give you a sleeping qualification as apparently the only YM I currentlu know seems to have one........../forums/images/icons/crazy.gif

I would rather forget what I have learned up to now on Mobos, as it is not a great deal anyhow, it just means that I am not as much of a dummy as I may first appear.

At this stage in my life, I doubt I will become an expert, and racing is definitely not my thing. I do want to become competent and capable and most of all safe when it come to sailing with my family or indeed with anyone. Believe me I know just how rough the sea can get. Full hurricane at sea. Been there thanks.

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[ccscott49]

I would go the competent crew route.
But if the weather is OK, you'll get a years experience in two days on Englander, you haven't seen my cat o' nine tails yet! You did remember to pack the holly stones? didn't you? You'll need knee pads aswell, don't want blood on my decks! Don't bother with sailing gloves, my halyards are red already! Avast ye' swabs!!

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[Bejasus]

The wee wifie says tae tell ye no tae worry, that ah'll hae mah Scottish cutlass wae me anyhow..../forums/images/icons/wink.gif 'n she said aw that in a screwed up Texan/Suffolk/Norfolk accent as weel. Owerpaid, owersexed 'n ower here. Dunno aboot the owerpaid bit mind...../forums/images/icons/laugh.gif

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[ccscott49]

No such thing as owerpaid, we're never paid enough!!
Anyway, you're not allowed a cutlass not qualified, midshipmen were issued with dirks!! Just wait till that lassie feels the cat on her back, eyeee! Bring her up into the wind a hairs breadth, blast yer' eyes!!!! Har me hearties etc, etc.

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[Hurleyburly]

Start with a dinghy is probably the best advice I can give.

Buy something easy to rig and indestructible, Topper's probably best and spend a few days in sheltered waters learning wind awareness, points of sail, trim and how to capsize.

A few days in a dinghy will give a much better understanding of how a sailing boat works than a couple of weeks on board a yacht, confused by electronic widgets and gizmos and marred by the half tonne of lead slung beneath you.

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[Peppermint]

Reinghy

Dinghy Dinghy Dinghy Dinghy etc.

Learn to sail well in a dinghy.

The rest is all froth and bubble.

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[BarryH]

Reinghy

Soundsabout the right starting point. Though do it in a dinghy that you sit in and not on. Any of the usaul ones will do. Wayfarers, Enterprise's Mirror's GP14. altho may be a bit twitchy for starting off.
It'llgive you tha basics. but a yacht will be slightly different in the way it sails reacts to the helm and will be a bit more forgiving
Its a while since I've been blown along. Wish I'd kept the Lazer and the topper. Kids are making noises about the "saily" boats that they see.

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[Hurleyburly]

Reinghy

Agree about sit in, not on

But the reason I suggested a Topper is because of its unstayed rig which can be raised and lowered in seconds. Also doesn't matter if you drop it or sail into things.

Also the Topper doesn't bring all the encumbrances of trailer-towbar-launching ramp.


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[BarryH]

Reinghy

True, but I think he'd get more from a more boat like boat than the topper. Especially if there's tell tales on the sails. Give more of an understanding as to whats going on and how to trim sails to get the best out of them.
Might even be worth doing a dinghy course with someone like Rockley sailing or one of the schools up on the broads.


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[Salty]

Competent Crew is a better place than DaySkipper, as its all boat/sail/bits and pieces handling rather than navigation which I guess you can already do. The other option would be to sign up with a racing boat looking for crew for one of the various winter series where you'll learn a lot about sail trimming, etc for considerably less cost and probably more fun than a course.

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[Skyva_2]

You won't learn much on a racing boat (in a race) apart from doing what you are told, at high speed, with much shouting if you don't.

IMHO a Wayfarer course as earlier recommended at eg Rockley Point will teach you more about sailing than any other route.

The Wayfarer is the ideal dinghy for progression to a sailing cruiser - 16 feet long, not too tippy but responds well to what you do on the helm.

If you want to do Competent Crew, OK for some sailing but you will know a lot of it already.

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[Ohdrat]

Would perhaps suggest you try some wild sailing with some one like <A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.westboundadventures.co.uk/>this</A>.. He does a lot of stuff not covered by RYA and in waters that are perhaps a little more challenging than the Solent in a F3-4. I would do some "easy" stuff in the Med etc and then book yourself onto an early or late season course when the winds can be stronger, the days shorter etc and somewhere where there is further between harbours/marinas etc.

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[Salty]

Skyva_2,

Obviously you can guess which route I came through, but I'd disagree. If you turn up to one race then yes, you'll learn nothing except some colourful new language, but the same is probably true of a weekend course. But over a race series quite a bit rubs off from spending time training and racing with people much better than yourself. If you go wanting to learn and spend time when you're doing nothing watching everyone else it can be extremely useful. I was bowman (a nice mechanical easy to learn job that no-one else wanted to do!) for a season, and spent my time not on the foredeck asking the trimmers what they were doing and why, etc, same on helming, nav. etc. And then on the deliveries from the races, when the rock-stars have all flown home you get to put some serious short-handed miles in and put it all into practice.

But now't wrong with a Wayfarer either...

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[Skyva_2]

That's very true - if you get to deliver as well as the race itself there is a lot you can learn from the experts. I wish I'd had the chance to do that.

My racing has been more short course where there is not much time to teach. I would still say that for rapid learning of wind awareness, sail trim and boat handling there is nothing like a dinghy.

But there is more than one way to get there....

Keith

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