Pwllheli to Holyhead.

Tryweryn

Tryweryn

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Had the boat a year now and sailing and handling are coming along great. This year i would like to get my timings perfect. Sat 2nd I want to go to Holyhead.
I understand it is best to pass through Bardsey at slack LW which I think will be 15.01 + .30 = 15.31hrs
Daft question but where do I need to be at this time St Tudwals?
Leaving at this time doesnt leave me much time in daylight (havent wired the new radar and AIS yet), is the a better way to go about this?
How far should I go on the outside of the Tripods? As last time I went over them and hell broke out.

What other problems is the Pwllheli to Holyhead?

Any help would be welcome.
 
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Tryweryn said:
Had the boat a year now and sailing and handling are coming along great. This year i would like to get my timings perfect. Sat 2nd I want to go to Holyhead.
I understand it is best to pass through Bardsey at slack LW which I think will be 15.01 + .30 = 15.31hrs
Daft question but where do I need to be at this time St Tudwals?
Leaving at this time doesnt leave me much time in daylight (havent wired the new radar and AIS yet), is the a better way to go about this?
How far should I go on the outside of the Tripods? As last time I went over them and hell broke out.

What other problems is the Pwllheli to Holyhead?

Any help would be welcome.
Click to expand...

Starter for ten.

Don't forget the tides off North Stack/South Stack when approaching HH. Ebb against a SW'ly can quickly get a bit uncomfortable. Also beware of the shingle spit just inside the head of the breakwater. The ferries, which are the main traffic into HH do have a sort of mini-TSS, so you shouldn't have to worry too much about them when approaching from the south. They're easy to spot at night, so your only worry will be fog.

I've only been through Bardsey Sd twice. Once in a flat calm and once in a F8 on a racing yacht. Wasn't as bad as I expected, but I wasn't expecting good.
 
Tryweryn said:
Had the boat a year now and sailing and handling are coming along great. This year i would like to get my timings perfect. Sat 2nd I want to go to Holyhead.
I understand it is best to pass through Bardsey at slack LW which I think will be 15.01 + .30 = 15.31hrs
Daft question but where do I need to be at this time St Tudwals?
Leaving at this time doesnt leave me much time in daylight (havent wired the new radar and AIS yet), is the a better way to go about this?
How far should I go on the outside of the Tripods? As last time I went over them and hell broke out.

What other problems is the Pwllheli to Holyhead?

Any help would be welcome.
Click to expand...

It's not just Bardsey you have to consider, but South Stack as well. The stream that will take you across the bay from Bardsey to South Stack on Saturday runs from about 4pm to 11pm, so it's going to be a few hours of sailing in the dark and a night arrival at Holyhead. The forecast for Saturday isn't great.

Getting back is more difficult tidally.
 
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Is the a way to do this first light by going a few miles offshore outside Bardsey and up to the Holyhead harbor then turn in?
 
Why not anchor in Porthdinllaen, (Sp?), overnight and finish the trip to Holyhead in the morning, and with a bit more flexibility.

If you have to be back on Monday, just go to Porthdinllaen... Holyhead isnt Mecca :) If you have a tender, a night in the pub on the beach used to be a good night, (Tai Coch??)

I havent been through Bardsey since 2006, but I recall always aiming for low tide for 20 years or more, before discovering that slack is actually a couple of hours before, or after, (cant remember), low water.
 
I think slack (i was wrong in my first post) is LW holyhead +.30 so 16:27 + .30 = 16.57hrs Leaving little daylight. It may have to be Porth Dinllaen. It was a test run to get to the Isle of man this summer. Maybe it would be better going up the Irish coast when I do that trip.
 
Tryweryn said:
Is the a way to do this first light by going a few miles offshore outside Bardsey and up to the Holyhead harbor then turn in?
Click to expand...

The tide wooshes out of Liverpool bay then turns round the top of Anglesey and down the Irish Sea. The whole of the Irish Sea is on the move. There's no escaping it completely. The South Stack overfalls go miles out in some conditions which shows that the whole area is on the move. If you end up trying to get back in towards HH when the tide is coming out of Liverpool Bay it will take a long time.
 
Tryweryn said:
It was a test run to get to the Isle of man this summer. Maybe it would be better going up the Irish coast when I do that trip.
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Pwllheli to HH and then HH to IoM is normally fine - it's just Saturday has awkward timed tides and a somewhat pants forecast. If you went to the IoM via Ireland you would still have to negotiate Bardsey.

Wind direction all this weekend is suitable for Porth Dinllaen.
 
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Yep it may be a good idea to just do Bardsey or Aberystwyth and leave HH till a better tide. Is this just a bad stretch of water or would it be like this say all the way to the outer Hebrides?
 
Tryweryn said:
I think slack (i was wrong in my first post) is LW holyhead +.30 so 16:27 + .30 = 16.57hrs Leaving little daylight. It may have to be Porth Dinllaen. It was a test run to get to the Isle of man this summer. Maybe it would be better going up the Irish coast when I do that trip.
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We never used to bother with the IOM... a long way, and a bit of a hassle with the tides. Did it a lot from Fleetwood, but not Abersoch and Pwhllelli.

Howth, Dun Laoghaire, Wicklow, are great destinations - and foreign :) With more time, we used to head South down the Irish Coast and turn the corner to Kilmore Quay or Dunmore East.
 
Tryweryn said:
Yep it may be a good idea to just do Bardsey or Aberystwyth and leave HH till a better tide. Is this just a bad stretch of water or would it be like this say all the way to the outer Hebrides?
Click to expand...

Pretty much the same up the Irish Sea, particularly so through the North Channel which seems to be a permanently grumpy bit of water, although there is a strange permanently slack bit of water near the Northern Ireland border and parts of Islay which have almost no spring tide rise and fall at all. Once you get to the Scottish west coast it changes character. The tidal range is much less. There are fast streams but they tend to be in constrictions rather than a whole wide sea area on the move, as is the case in the Irish Sea. If you get round the corner to the Northern Isles all hell breaks loose. There be dragons. :)
 
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If / as you approach HH, please monitor Ch 14 and advise Port Control of your intentions and request permission to enter the harbour. There is a TSS at the entrance.

Haven't looked at a forecast or the tides but passing through The Stacks isn't something you'll get wrong twice.

Last time I did a similar passage, after Bardsey Sound I picked up an overnight mooring in Porth Dinllaen and took the morning flood into HH. HH-PD-HH is a well frequented weekend passage in the summertime. Quite straightforward and can be picturesque. Watch out for fishermans pots. Simply lay your intended route along the chart and look out for any potential hazards.

Good luck, this weekend or another time.
 
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Tryweryn said:
Had the boat a year now and sailing and handling are coming along great. This year i would like to get my timings perfect. Sat 2nd I want to go to Holyhead.
I understand it is best to pass through Bardsey at slack LW which I think will be 15.01 + .30 = 15.31hrs
Daft question but where do I need to be at this time St Tudwals?
Leaving at this time doesnt leave me much time in daylight (havent wired the new radar and AIS yet), is the a better way to go about this?
How far should I go on the outside of the Tripods? As last time I went over them and hell broke out.

What other problems is the Pwllheli to Holyhead?

Any help would be welcome.
Click to expand...
I always used to say, Pwllheli to Bardsey around 3 hours. Abersoch to Bardsey 2 hrs. Prob is to get there for lo slack you have to leave Pwllheli a couple of hrs before lo water P and with the silting when I was there, it was difficult to get out. Staying at Aberdaron for the night, yuck! Any wind and it is uncomfortable. 15.17 lo P on Sat?

Reeds definitive, slack Bardsey is LW HH +35 mins. 16.18 LWHH on Sat, so slack Bardsey is 16.53.

22.32 HW HH on Sat?

So supposing you left P 14.00 (if you can get out) Then you would be ok (depending on speed of boat!) BUT, as others have said, night arrival in HH or a very early start to catch the previous tide.
I usually average 5-6kts. I put the donk on if we slow down! I found that doing as I said above then the tides were right to get in to HH without too much hassle. The Tripods, I always used to skirt the outside, just! Going around Bardsey, forget it, it is just the same, overfalls, adverse currents etc. Weather SE 17 mph gusting 25, You will fly! First time I did Bardsey, night ,similar wind, following my mates, black as hell, got the timing wrong! SOG 13 kts! Big wooshes coming from the port qtr as white things gave us the fat lady waddle! We flew through. If you get timing a bit wrong the wind and tide will be with you so no big standing waves and a reach all the way to HH
S
 
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Bardsey is a very problematic tidal gate, the Tripods and other races are really nasty. Getting there at slack water while having to leave Pwllheli with enough water adds to the problem
 
If you use this link from The NWVYC it has a very useful spreadsheet download that shows the slack water timings for any given day at Bardsey, South Stack and Carmel/ Skerries

http://www.nwvyc.org.uk/Orr_Tides.html

Download the spreadsheet go to page two and at the top left hand corner enter the date of your planned trip.

Just as a matter of info.

We have found that there is a very useful back eddy which gives an early flood tide which you can pick up going through Bardsey. You need to be very close to the mainland and sail inside Carreg Ddu. There is plenty of water all the way around (It is at least as deep as the high towering cliffs to your side). This allows you to get inside the Tripods and off to Porth-Dinllaen up to an hour and a half before slack water in the sound. Only do it in calm conditions and watch out for pots they are numerous and always being pulled just below the surface by the tide!

You would find that out in the sound you would still be pushing against about 4 to five knots of ebb tide.

We used to allow just over two hours from Pwllheli to get to Bardsey but never had a problem with timing for leaving harbour as had a lifting keel.

Steve
 
Thanks loads of info there. I'm thinking of leaving HH till I either can get a morning tide to get me into HH, have more time to call into Porth Dinlaen or finish installing the new AIS and radar. I may look for a simple place to get to where I can leave in the morning and arrive before dark. Porth Dinlaen and Aberystwyth are possibles. But would be nice if I can find a nice simple place in Ireland with a nice harbor.

But this is why I love sail its a skill to learn...
 
Always pass through Bardsey at low water slack. That way you'll have tide with you up to Holyhead or from Holyhead if returning. You can pass outside bardsey following the 5m contour if you miss slack in the sound although I have not tried it. The NWCC spreadsheet is very useful and also local pilots and the Irish sea pilot give details of back eddies which allow you pass through the sound early and give you longer fair tide northwards which can speed you up considerably.
Bardsey has overfalls north and south which are best avoided. 9 times out of ten its a straightforward trip but be careful of wind over tide.
 
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