Puzzlement over Yanmar engine oil

[RichardS]

I don't think sae 0 exists.? SAe hot viscosities seem to go down to 20?
ISTR the sae scales are different for engine oil, gear oil and motorbike fork oil. I.e the same oil would have a different sae number if you put it in the gearbox.
Some bikes are using 10w60 for engine oil now. Runny when cold, still viscous when hot.
But forks are tending towards low numbers like saew2.5, on the grounds that change in viscosity is the thing to avoid. If it starts off thinner than water, heating it up won't change things as badly.
When you get to cars that want SAE 0W20, we normally need to worry about more than just viscosity. There are other issues like not poisoning the cat or blocking the DPF. My car is still worth a few £ so I'll pay the extra for a Motul oil that meets the BMW spec.
With my bikes, every time I check the valve clearances and find they are still in spec, I feel the expensive synth oil has been a bargain.

In the old days I used to top up my Sierra with oil drained from my bike.

SAE 0W-5 certainly exists http://www.bakerprecision.com/neo/0w5.htm but is currently only used in racing engines which can be rebuilt after every race. Likewise, until Mobil 1 was launched on public sale in the mid-70s when I started buying it, it was only used in racing engines.

I'm speculating that SAE0W-0 will be available one day soon but whether such a rating is possible under the current SAE scale, I know not.

Richard

 

[Norman_E]

Looking at getting a boat with a Yanmar 3YM30 engine and had a look at the manual (2009 edition on their website http://www.yanmarmarine.com/theme/y...e-engines/Operation-manuals/YM_V2_21JAN09.pdf).

Very puzzled by the oil spec.
It says:

Use an engine oil that meets or exceeds
the following guidelines and classifications:
• API Service Categories: CD or higher
TBN value: 9 or more
The oil must be changed when the Total
Base Number (TBN) has been reduced
to 2.0.
• NEVER use API Service Category CG-4
or CH-4 oils.



This seems very contradictory.
Vyv's page http://coxengineering.sharepoint.com/Pages/Oilforyachtengines.aspx says TBN of CD is 4, nowhere near 9.
What is so wrong with CG-4 and CH-4?

As CD is hard to find, it just seems to leave CF and CF-4.

It doesn't mention CI-4 that Vyv's page says Yanmar recommends at all!

I have a Yanmar 88hp 3JH4DTE engine with a turbocharger, and for the last 5 years at least I have used Shell Rimula R4 X 15-40 and it does not appear to have done any harm as the engine with over 4,500 hours on it still runs perfectly. A look at the Shell webpage here http://www.shell.com/motorist/oils-...-heavy-duty-engine-oil/shell-rimula-r4-x.html shows that it meeets API categories CI-4, CH-4, CG-4, CF-4, CF. SL which includes the two categories CH 4 & CG 4 which are supposed not to be used, so am I using the wrong oil or not? Shell lubematch says Rimula RT4X 15-40 is correct, but in Turkey I can only get R4X

 

[macd]

Indeed. With a plain bearing like a main journal the pressurised oil should effectively keep the bearing surfaces apart at a microscopic level so if you could force fluid in at sufficient pressure to ensure a total lack of bearing contact, then you could, in theory use any fluid ...... even air which behaves like a fluid in this context.

Air-bearings are in widespread use, albeit in quite specialised applications. They offer very low drag and give fewer issues of contamination, so sometimes found in medical eqipment.
Ditto water-lubricated bearings - also in specialised applications such as nuclear reactor pumps, partly because water acquires radioactivity less readily than other mediums.
Many boats also have quite large water-lubricated bearings, although these aren't subject to the heavy cyclical loads which con-rod bearings endure.

None of them have that lovely smell of hot oil, though

 

[frankcilo]

Shell rimula R4x is a good oil, It is just as good as the Mobil Delvac Mx, have the same specifications (CI-4). But if indeed a high tbn is not required and can be harmful, I will continue to use 15w-40 Api CD oil, until you find it on the market

 

[[70521]]

I suspect that the confusion is caused by instructions being written in one language then translated through several others before arriving in English. It certainly makes reading technical academic papers "interesting".

 

[frankcilo]

I resume this discussion because I found this Mannol synthetic oil 15w40, with tbn not so high, according to you it is better to use this in place of the mineral. I would almost change ...

http://m.mannol.de/?action=accessory_chemical_preview&name=TS-14 UHPD 15W-40

 

[RichardS]

I resume this discussion because I found this Mannol synthetic oil 15w40, with tbn not so high, according to you it is better to use this in place of the mineral. I would almost change ...

http://m.mannol.de/?action=accessory_chemical_preview&name=TS-14 UHPD 15W-40

15W-40 fully synthetic oil is also available in the UK but not widely, for example, http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/LUCAS-OIL...05&rk=1&rkt=1&&_trksid=p2045573.c100705.m4780

but it is very expensive at almost £10 a litre and I have two engines to fill. The 15W-40 semi-synthetic I use is £3 a litre!

If I could buy the fully synthetic at a reasonable price I would certainly use it as it would keep my engine internals in showroom condition for their lifetime.

Richard

 

[frankcilo]

https://m.ebay.it/itm?itemId=361430807725

 

[RichardS]

https://m.ebay.it/itm?itemId=361430807725

Mannol TS-1 SHPD is a special high-quality super high performance diesel (SHPD) engine oil based on mineral oil ......

Richard

 

[frankcilo]

I have posted 15w-40 uhpd ts-14

 

[RichardS]

I have posted 15w-40 uhpd ts-14

Scroll down to the bottom of the eBay advert for "Beschreibung" (Description). This shows the danger of buying though foreign eBay sites. :ambivalence:

Richard

 

[frankcilo]

I do not understand where you want to get ... this oil really exists, it costs about $ 60 for 20 liters, cheaper than many minerals, and then mannol makes quality oils. I will buy this, since I have 2 boats to handle, one sail and one motor, 20 liters I'm fine

 

[frankcilo]

http://www.ebay.it/itm/20-1x20-Lite...367029?hash=item3f6058b975:g:zhQAAOSwGOxXAjz5

This is correct

 

[RichardS]

I do not understand where you want to get ... this oil really exists, it costs about $ 60 for 20 liters, cheaper than many minerals, and then mannol makes quality oils. I will buy this, since I have 2 boats to handle, one sail and one motor, 20 liters I'm fine

Fine .... but it's not synthetic. I don't know what language you speak but click on "Descrizione" on the eBay advert you posted and choose "Inglesi" or whichever language you prefer and then read the description.

Richard

 

[frankcilo]

I read on the official website, and it says it's synthetic oil, I miss losing the descriptive descriptions of sellers on ebay

http://m.mannol.de/?action=accessory_chemical_preview&name=TS-14 UHPD 15W-40

 

[RichardS]

http://www.ebay.it/itm/20-1x20-Lite...367029?hash=item3f6058b975:g:zhQAAOSwGOxXAjz5

This is correct

OK ... that's a different advert which doesn't have an English option as the English page is in German: MANNOL TS-14 UHPD ist ein auf mineralischen Grundölen basierendes Motorenöl für den Einsatz in Nutzfahrzeugen mit Dieselmotoren. Es bietet geringe Emmissionen, weniger Ablagerungen, verlängerte Ölwechselintervalle sowie einen anhaltenden Verschleißschutz. Durch speziell ausgewählte Additive errfüllt dieses Low-SAPS-Öl unter anderem die Spezifikationen ACEA E9, API CJ-4, Mercedes-Benz 228.31 sowie Volvo VDS-4.

Google translates this a "MANNOL TS-14 UHPD is a mineral oil based engine oil for use in commercial vehicles with diesel engines ..... ".

This may well be a synthetic 15W-40 oil and the references to the "mineral oil base" are losing something in translation as everthing is mineral in the ultimate, but it's not a risk I'm prepared to take as I don't want 20 litres of 15W-40 mineral oil as I have no use for it.

If you decide to order it then please confirm after delivery that it really is the Mannol fully-synthetic 15W-40 as at that price I would certainly consider ordering 20 litres.

Richard

 

[frankcilo]

ist ein synthetisches Öl, das für den Einsatz in Nutzfahrzeugen mit Dieselmotoren bestimmt ist. Es zeichnet sich durch verlängerte Ölwechselintervalle, einen anhaltenden Verschleißschutz, weniger Emissionen sowie weniger Ablagerungen aus. Dank der einzigartigen Additiv-Technologie erfüllt dieses Low-SAPS-Öl die Spezifikationen ACEA E9, API CJ-4, Mercedes-Benz 228.31 sowie Volvo VDS-4.

 

[RichardS]

ist ein synthetisches Öl, das für den Einsatz in Nutzfahrzeugen mit Dieselmotoren bestimmt ist. Es zeichnet sich durch verlängerte Ölwechselintervalle, einen anhaltenden Verschleißschutz, weniger Emissionen sowie weniger Ablagerungen aus. Dank der einzigartigen Additiv-Technologie erfüllt dieses Low-SAPS-Öl die Spezifikationen ACEA E9, API CJ-4, Mercedes-Benz 228.31 sowie Volvo VDS-4.

It's your eBay link Frank http://www.ebay.it/itm/20-1x20-Lite...367029?hash=item3f6058b975:g:zhQAAOSwGOxXAjz5

There's no point in quoting a piece of text that is not in it.

Richard

 

[frankcilo]

but fool me? I told you to let go of ebay and concentrate on the official listing on the Mannol site! On ebay you find incorrect data!

Mannol 15w40 UHPD TS-14 is 100% syntetic oil

 

[RichardS]

but fool me? I told you to let go of ebay and concentrate on the official listing on the Mannol site! On ebay you find incorrect data!

Mannol 15w40 UHPD TS-14 is 100% syntetic oil

As I said in post #56, please go ahead and order it based on what you believe it is rather than what the eBay advert actually says. If I order it and it is not the fully synthetic version of the Mannol product there is absolutely no way I'm ever going to get my money back from an Italian eBay seller.

Richard