Puzzled by motorsailing techniques in Christchurch Bay.

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alant

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Yesterday, whilst out for my late afternoon walk, I noticed several yachts heading from Hurst toward Poole, in a brisk F4 gusting, with various sizes of headsail deployed, but no main, making very hard work of it. Is this a new 'Solent Rig'?
Yachts sailing in the opposite direction toward the Solent, also, as seems to be the norm, wearing headsail only, for the downwind leg.
 
I usually, and lots of other local boats, sail down wind with just a headsail. I find the main adds no speed and I don't race.
 
Sandy said:
I usually, and lots of other local boats, sail down wind with just a headsail. I find the main adds no speed and I don't race.
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If direct down wind we have to tack to avoid continual risk gybing. The longer course resulting negates the v slight increase in speed, so genoa or cruising chute alone is preferred. With a large genoa and small main on old boat we don't lose much speed by keeping the main stowed away on a broad reach either, but do save the effort of hoisting it for short passages.
 
Having just done that exact 'passage' in the last week, my reason was that I have the old huge genoa - pocket kerchief main, easier to just have the genoa up when dead downwind as the main just gets in the way unless you can alter course a bit - sail by the lee and use a preventer.
 
Just jib going downwind in a breeze makes perfect sense on many boats - but from Alan's description there were others going upwind that way. That seems a bit more surprising to me.

Pete
 
But Alant is talking about going to windward.

The main is provided for several good reasons, and will aid balance on the helm as well as a lot of drive by the ' slot effect ' between even a slightly overlapping foresail and the main.

I suspect you saw some lazy, possibly clueless people - it's easy to unroll a genoa but takes a little effort to hoist the main ?

Please tell me they didn't have sail covers on the boom as well...:rolleyes:
 
Sandy said:
I usually, and lots of other local boats, sail down wind with just a headsail. I find the main adds no speed and I don't race.
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Same here. With the wind over the quarter, hoisting the main only stops the jib working. Last year I managed a four week trip around the west coast, including two circumnavigations of Mull (in opposite directions) hoisting my nice new mainsail precisely twice. Gentlemen do not beat to windward.
 
Seajet said:
But Alant is talking about going to windward.

The main is provided for several good reasons, and will aid balance on the helm as well as a lot of drive by the ' slot effect ' between even a slightly overlapping foresail and the main.

I suspect you saw some lazy, possibly clueless people - it's easy to unroll a genoa but takes a little effort to hoist the main ?

Please tell me they didn't have sail covers on the boom as well...:rolleyes:
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Yes they did on one boat.
Downwind under headsail alone, ie Solent Rig, is commonplace, but upwind under engine, foresail flogging or being backed, makes little sense.
 
Just unrolling the genoa is known as 'hangover rig'.
On many yachts, it works quite well not only down wind, but also up to a surprisingly close reach.
Maybe the yachts were not actually motoring at all?

Unfortunately I suspect it's more likely they'd set the autopilot while motorsailing and gone below to watch the football or something, then the wind had shifted.
 
I can motorsail more closely with the main alone that with the jib, something like 30 degrees to the true wind, which allows me to make good progress. Downwind, I scarcely ever sail with jib alone and never have. If I want to put up more sail, I have to stop and turn to the wind, which is much more hassle than doing so before setting out. I also have the reassurance that I have available the best rig if I need to turn to windward. Although my boat will go to windward with its 110% jib, it is not ideal if things get difficult.
 
lw395 said:
Just unrolling the genoa is known as 'hangover rig'.
On many yachts, it works quite well not only down wind, but also up to a surprisingly close reach.
Maybe the yachts were not actually motoring at all?

Unfortunately I suspect it's more likely they'd set the autopilot while motorsailing and gone below to watch the football or something, then the wind had shifted.
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Definitely MS.
 
Seajet said:
But Alant is talking about going to windward.

The main is provided for several good reasons, and will aid balance on the helm as well as a lot of drive by the ' slot effect ' between even a slightly overlapping foresail and the main.

I suspect you saw some lazy, possibly clueless people - it's easy to unroll a genoa but takes a little effort to hoist the main ?

Please tell me they didn't have sail covers on the boom as well...:rolleyes:
Click to expand...

I sometimes sail upwind with just the headsail out. Even hard on the wind the boat can do 7-8 knots under just headsail, so why not? It doesn't take a little effort to hoist my main, with lots of full battens & a big roach it takes a lot of effort, so if I'm not in a hurry, or not going far, I don't feel at all guilty being lazy, or clueless as you say. Mainsail cover still on? Absolutely. A not cheap North 3DI carbon sail is far too precious to allow all this summer's bright sun on it if it's not doing something useful. Hopefully this will set you off into an eye-rolling tutty fit.
 
AngusMcDoon said:
I sometimes sail upwind with just the headsail out. Even hard on the wind the boat can do 7-8 knots under just headsail, so why not? It doesn't take a little effort to hoist my main, with lots of full battens & a big roach it takes a lot of effort, so if I'm not in a hurry, or not going far, I don't feel at all guilty being lazy, or clueless as you say. Mainsail cover still on? Absolutely. A not cheap North 3DI carbon sail is far too precious to allow all this summer's bright sun on it if it's not doing something useful. Hopefully this will set you off into an eye-rolling tutty fit.
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Sailing upwind & motorsailing upwind are not the same.
 
If I.m going downwind for any length of time in open water. I'll sail goose winged, with poled out genny and prevented main, but not in crowded waters as it's a time-consuming faff to change course more than a few degrees.

Upwind, it's either sail close hauled (not too close on a tubby bilge keeler) or admit that it's not working and put the donk on. In the latter case, I'll usually have the main sheeted well in unless it's a flat calm
 
When i had my first Stella it was fitted with a 4hp stuart turner inboard. This would often give very little forward motion if there was much chop.
if i tried to sail up wind with genoa only that also gave limited forward motion.
However, if i used engine and genoa together i found that the boat would go surprisingly well and the resulting speed was greater than the sum of the two.
this piece of knowledge came in handy on a friends yacht in an EAORA race where we had to retire due to a split main.
the owner felt we would not get home and would have to go back down wind to the start miles from home as the genoa on its own would not get us there, neither would the engine.
the two together actually saved the day and we made excellent progress
 
You say it was a brisk F4. So, I'm assuming the sea state was at least "moderate".

Maybe they had a problem hoisting the main. Lost the shackle connecting main to halyard. Halyard disappeared to top of mast. Sail torn. Who knows.

So they planned to motor home to get it fixed. In a moderate sea, motoring with no sail to steady the boat would have been unpleasant. The genny might have provided some dampening effect.

Just conjecture. But I never try to second guess why other people appear to be doing something strange. Maybe they had a reason neither you nor I have thought of.
 
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