putting screws in so you can get then out again

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jamiegrant

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I seem to remember reading years ago that before driving in a screw, it should be dipped in tallow/wax or something like that to make it easier to get out again. Having suffered from snapping screw syndrome when trying to extract ancient brass screws I would like to help the person who in years to come needs to take out the screws I am putting in. Should the screw be dipped and in what modern material?

Also, is an ordinary brass screw Ok in a marine environment and if not what to use? Can a bronze screw be used with a brass hinge?
 
Hi and welcome to the forum.
Brass screws below the water line are really not what you want.
Use "Silicon Bronze" One of the the people that you can get them from is "Anglia Stainless Ltd" Tel 01359-251414 they used to be "Combwich Marine". I am not sure if they have a web site.
Your old brass screws are probably snapping because they have lost the zinc in them over the years.
I remove the broken bit with a hollow punch with 2 groves cut across the end to form a hollow drill you then tap in a smaller tube to remove the old screw.
As to putting something on the screw dip them in "Boiled linseed Oil" ( Not sure 'Boiled or not makes any difference just I have it and use it on very nearly everything to do with wood) they go in much easer. Screws put in this way will also come out much easier. "Silicon Bronze" screws are far stronger than brass and are OK use anywhere on a wooden boat within reason.
Hope this helps.
 
agree with oldsalt. Another tip, when using brass screws inside the boat, drill a pilot hole, then use a steel screw of the same size, first screw it in, take it out and then put in the brass screw, stops them breaking as you put them in, which often happens with baby screws.
 
[ QUOTE ]
I remove the broken bit with a hollow punch with 2 groves cut across the end to form a hollow drill you then tap in a smaller tube to remove the old screw.


[/ QUOTE ]

This sounds interesting but I can't quite visualise what you mean. Any chance of a picture?

I have made special hole saws for removing the wood around screws and these work quite well as long as you keep stopping to clear out the sawdust.

Re: lubricant for screws. There is some stuff called Lancote which you can use but it's very messy and might stain the surrounding wood. An alternative is Vaseline, which is practically colourless.
 
It is very much the same as you are doing. I use the straight type hole punches you can get from ebay or auto jumbles, we call them the shiny tool stalls. I then file two cutting edges on the end looks a bit like the hand starter dog on the crank shaft of a older engine. As you say go careful and clear the sawdust, then a smaller tube tapped in will grip the old screw and it can be removed. some times they will come out with just the drilling.
I have ground up a 3/8" drill to a tapered end and turn up tapered plugs (I have a Myford lathe which has helped in restoring Mercia III more than anything else) drill the old screw hole then tap in a gulled ( Balcotan or Cascafen) plug.

Here are two photos that may help.

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e201/shot321/ToolsMerciaIII001.jpg

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e201/shot321/ToolsMerciaIII002.jpg
 
We used to use anything going - soap, grease, olive oil, even butter from a sandwich !!!
And happy times making very small coffin-shaped grease boxes out of scrap hardwood in the lunchhour - especially for this purpose.
Vaseline is probably the cleanest - don't forget to thoroughly degrease if varnishing / painting afterwards.
 
Linseed oil ...

Boiled on metal ... raw on wood ... not supposed to swap them over.

And the worst concoction ever given to a cadet .... White lead and tallow for standing rigging / exposed bottle screw threads etc.

As to mateys screws .... no matter what you do and literally no matter what material - after a period they will be un-removable anyway ...

The old trick to get them in was soap on the threads .... very few people really thought about getting them out again !
 
Re: Linseed oil ...

Must admit, they can be a [--word removed--] to get out. I have a chippies brace, with a screwdriver bit for it, great for getting big bronze screws out!! Using it on my deck screws next week, to deepen and replug my decks.
 
Re: Linseed oil ...

Quote:very few people really thought about getting them out again !

This is true I must admit, it may be the case of them going in and coming out 2 or 3 times while fitting up a part. Then put in to stay. Yes I think it will be far more difficult to remove them as time gos on.

Thanks for the info on the 'Boiled' and 'raw'.
Am I right is it that boiled will dry on metal and raw remains tackier for a long time?

I seam to remember the old boys mentioning marine soft soap as well on screws in hard woods Oak etc.
But I some how think it was to get them in and then they would NOT come out after a number of months or so. being very thin I suppose it soaked away.

I might be wrong can you add a comment to this.
 
Re: Linseed oil ...

As I remember yer right .... boiled dried out ... as a skin.... bit like varnish or onion skin. But raw on wood would soak in and stay tacky ... but was designed to keep the wood "oiled".

Soap indeed was used to ease them in ... I'm sure you've been screwing a screw in and it starts to "squeek" and then gets hard to turn very quickly ... if it "squeeks" back it out ... wipe soap over all the threads ... try again ... amazing difference.

Another one for the archives ... sailmakers thread should be drawn through beeswax before sewing ... it a) weather protects the thread, b) eases it through the canvas, c) stops it sticking and binding once set-up. BUT if you have a strong thread and strong canvas that is difficult to sew ......... forget beeswax - grab a bar of Lux soap as supplied on Brit ships .... doesn't matter what fragrance ... anyway - soap has better lubricating ability for sewing !!

OK - just one more ... you've just completed that beautiful whipping and you would like to make sure it will never loosen ... What to do ? Well you can either dip the end and whipping in varnish - or if colour is no problem - a gash tin of paint.

Now I must have another pint !!
 
Hear Hear to vaselene for putting them in. To remove -Punch them IN first with
flat pin punch of head diameter =to screw head- then unscrew 1/8 of a turn
Repunch IN then unscrew 1/2 turn etc etc until the screw turns freely. Never
known this method to fail for screws into wood. Screws into metal are another matter---
 
Thanks for that "Gem"
I hope jamiegrant sees your post.

All the old screws have now been removed from my own boat but I will I that a try next time I have a difficult one to undo on something.
I must say I think caution will be the order of the day on de zincked brass screws.
 
Got two sets of them with sockets and screwdriver ends, now thinking about it, of curse when you use them they "DO" just that, "Hammer action".

Having been at the Scotish wine.
"Oooo" Take your knitting and go to the front of the class.. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 
Re: Linseed oil ...

You're probably right for certain applications, Nigel, but I've always used boiled on wood because it soaks in but then the surface does eventually dry off. That way dust and dirt don't make it filthy. Boiled is a standard recommendation for oil finish on oak furniture and I've used nothing else but for years on all sorts. Raw is OK for cricket bats apparently.
 
Re: Linseed oil ...

One of the reasons screws become tight, is because the oils in the wood harden with time and act as a glue. These hardened oils can be softened with heat. A good way to do this is to clean the head of the screw, apply flux, and use a dab of solder to transfer the heat from a soldering iron.

Probably will not work if the screw is holding a large fitting.

To get maximun grip on the head, if worn, give the tip of the screwdriver a brief bash on a grinder to raise a sharp lip that will bite into the bottom of the screw.

Using hammer action can be very sucessful, providing the screw is strong.

Philips, and probably pozidrive screwdrivers, are designed to be a fairly loose fit in the screw. Grind the tip of the screwdriver until the screwdriver wedges tightly into the screw.

Philip
 
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