Putting a thin veneer on my veneer

Saddletramp

Saddletramp

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I am buying Sadler 32 which has a badly discoloured bulkead due to damp and general neglect. Once I know it is dry is there something I can cover it with, preferably wood effect?

Could also do with being lighter to brighten the cabin up.

Cheers
 
Buy iron on Veneer, or buy veneer and put it on with epoxy.
You can get it in a multitude of different timbers, check out e bay. I've just done a whole passageway with teak veneer, varnished, looks a million dollars!!
 
You could put a real veneer on the veneer! Robbins Timber - see http://www.robbins.co.uk/Pdf%20Files/pl44_laminate_panels.pdf

I haven't looked further on their site but I bought some Mahogany veneers about ten years ago, used epoxy (and pins temporarily) and they are still there (outside) and fine.

Good idea - go for it. You might get the discolouration out of it though by the use of oxalic acid - applied to bare wood so you would have to strip any varnish (not sand - you'll go through the facing veneer)
 
Re-veneering large vertical flat panels is not easy, and if you screw up you are stuck with it (literally).
Would support stripping it and seeing what it is like, using Oxalid acid on stains. Suspect the outer veneer will be quite thin so don't sand too hard. Staining before revarnishing might be necessary to get an even colour. You may want to trial on a hidden part such as behind a cushion.

If the panel still looks poor, then painting a matt white with varnished wood trim looks good. You can break up the expanse of white with pictures or bookshelves.

Hope this helps
 
Just concerned that the damage may have gone too deep. There is a lot to do. All the varnished surfaces are tired. well that's putting it mildly. I suppose if do put veneer on it will be difficult to match unless I go for an obvioulsy different shade.
 
I am worried about making a balls up. I had thought about painting it as it is too dark anyway. Did not want to de-value the boat though. That's a laugh it is in a terrible state. Some wood framed pictures and an oil lamp would look good though.
 
I have done a lot of this. In fact my whole boat was built structurally and veneered in place with american cherry. Look here http://www.mcb-supplies.co.uk/ and you will find veneer, glue film, and everything you need. Robbins also for veneer but I am not sure they do the film glue.
It's relatively easy to do but requires a little practice to ensure you don't overheat the veneer which then shrinks away from the joins. I found the best practice was to

1. Iron on a film of glue to the base material.
2. Iron on another film of glue to the veneer.
3. Allow both to cool.
4. Cut veneer to size and remove protective surface from both glue films.
5. Iron veneer into position IN THE MIDDLE ONLY leaving about 1/2 inch unstuck all around. Overlap each strip by about 1/2 to the next. Use a hard roller to set down the veneer as it cools not the iron as it tends to come unstuck until cool.
6. With a VERY sharp stanley knife and straight edge cut through both veneers at join. (Probably the most difficult bit).
7. Remove surplus material at overlaps and iron down edges using minimum heat and a roller again. It's important not to hold the iron on for longer than you need or have it too hot or it will shrink.
8. Lightly sand whole surface BY HAND and finish using your favourite resin varnish. Don't use an orbital sander and sand ALONG the grain not across it.
( I use Epifanes "ready rubbed" varnish for interiors which look best if not ultra shiny. )

Practice on a spare bit of plywood first until you get it right then go for it! You will be proud of the result.
 
Is it possible to remove the panels, veneering would be better done on the bench where you can get set up properly, very difficult to do in situ and get a really good finish.
 
That's really helpful Mike, I will print it off and use it as instructions.
NDH - Mike seems to have done his in situ. Though it would be wise to remove as much as possible.

I will try and post some pics later to show how dire it is. It can only get better.
 
Hi

If you go down the veneer on veneer route there a one or two veneer suppliers on Ebay. My preference to sort out time darkened/stained veneer would be to paint it using an oil based eggshell ( see Farrow and Ball range as example) lovely satin finish, very hard wearing and you can let SWMBO choose the colour!
 
I veneered the main bulkhead and some smaller areas of my previous boat using 1.5mm teak faced ply from Robbins timber. The result, IMHO, was excellent. It is obtainable as an 8 ft X 4 ft sheet, so largish areas can be covered with minimal need for joins, it is not fragile, so it is easy to handle, and there seemed no tendency for it to "bubble". It can be cut with a stanley knife, after first making a template with, say, thin cardboard. I used impact adhesive, the edges were covered by the existing trim strips. The job was done more than 10 years ago, and AFAIK, it hasn't fallen off yet. The downside perhaps, is that a sheet is now about £150.
 
SaddleTramp030.jpg

Thanks for the comments Earlybird and La Touche.
As you can see it looks too far gone to bring back.
 
Blimey, that looks in a shocking condition! That said, I had a small patch of veneer in our Sadler 32 (now 23 years old) on the right of the chart table which looked awful as a result of a leaking window. After drying out and rubbing back the remains of the previous coating back to the bare veneer (wet and dry used wet), I revarnished and it's been fine since - and a good enough match for the surrounding woodwork.

In your circs, my first concern would be to discover how the bulkhead got into that condition in the first place. It wouldn't happen by itself - I've only just recently started making good the original Sadler Yachts finish on mine.

If your problem is localised to that bulkhead, I'd also be bothered about getting a reasonable match with the rest of the woodwork.

I quite like the idea of paint - the veneers on my boat have a good grain to them, which would show nicely through if you like that sort of effect. But it's a bit of a job to remove the paint if you change your mind about it later...
 
I wouldn't condemn that immediately although there will be a fair bit of hard work ahead of you. It is probably fair to say that it is always going to be a challenge to blend the top and bottom back into one finish but then I guess the bottom is hidden by cushions?

If you are resolved for action - I assume there is no softness? - then I would remove any laquer/varnish with nitromors or similar and a carefully wielded scraper. This is not the moment to dig in a corner. Having got back to bare wood, try an application of oxalic acid - 'paint on', probably best to have thickened the solution and leave to work. Wash off and see what appearance you get. Frankly that doesn't look too black to me which would have needed quite a few applications of oxalic acid. You will almost certainly need to repeat the acid and then as has been said a gentle stain may be required. The cost of trying this is mainly your time so it is quite worth while doing if you have the time. If you fail to get the surface you require, you can always resort to a veneer.
 
[ QUOTE ]
SaddleTramp030.jpg

Thanks for the comments Earlybird and La Touche.
As you can see it looks too far gone to bring back.

[/ QUOTE ]That does not look so bad. Why all the drama? Remove the remaining varnish (nitromors or the like and a good scraper), Oxalic acid where needed, wash and dry well, a light rub down with fine glass paper (along the grain) then reassess the situation. It also looks like someone has used a varnish stain on the panel - criminal. I had to deal with worse on my 34' and the panels came up like new with out reveneering.
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Artificial Intelligence is no match for Natural Stupidity
 
Just to add to what you say about shrinkage, the way I did mine was:
Iron on veneer, leave an inch un-ironed at the joining edge, get gummed paper tape, (water based glue) stick the next veneer to the last one with the gummed tape, allow to dry, (minutes), then iron on the next veneer and join, doing that until the panel is finished.
Allow to cool, wet the tape and peel off, any gum residue can be wiped off with a wet rag, this gives no shrinkage at the joins.
Got this from the people who supplied the venneer, "Vale veneers" I think, off E bay anyway!!
To end, any slight gaps, I had a couple of minor ones, can be filled with "Brummer wood filler" before varnishing.
Another tip, is to use high gloss varnish first, a few coats, flat this and apply a last coat of "rubbed effect" gives a much better "depth" to the varnish.
 
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