Pushy flotilla leaders

[spencerd]

I have just returned from the Ionian and can honestly say that the flotillas, due to the changing wind patterns, leave late and come in late (6-7pm), the leaders then try to bully all the private owners to move, raft-up, etc, etc.

I was party to this and just short of having a fight (at my age) told the leader there was no way 6 boats were going to be rated up to me and my rafted to me Italian neighbour. The Italian had to explain that we both had dogs and did not want 20 plus people crossing his and my boat in the middle of the night. After much verbal abuse the Italian said he would call the police only to be told that the war had finished and they would find out where the two of us were eating and get the waiters to spit in our dinner.

From previous experience its usually the people from the west of Greece that behave badly, this was from Brits....... Apart from that the south and north Ionian was still the same and don't let the BBC put you off going, in fact I think it is 10% cheaper.

Anyone else had this experience?

 

[Davy_S]

I find this quite surprising, I see the flotillas on a daily basis. Most of the crews are Aussies or Kiwis. They have a very difficult job to do when it gets busy (this year is quiet) they have to get all their punters in safely, somewhere. I have never seen them raft up to private boats, they normally have a space saved for them (prebooked) and will raft up together if they need to. They are very good at helping other yachts who find mooring with a crosswind a little daunting.

Yes its still quite cheap, but always check the menu first!

 

[little_roundtop]

I have just returned from the Ionian and can honestly say that the flotillas, due to the changing wind patterns, leave late and come in late (6-7pm), the leaders then try to bully all the private owners to move, raft-up, etc, etc.

I was party to this and just short of having a fight (at my age) told the leader there was no way 6 boats were going to be rated up to me and my rafted to me Italian neighbour. The Italian had to explain that we both had dogs and did not want 20 plus people crossing his and my boat in the middle of the night. After much verbal abuse the Italian said he would call the police only to be told that the war had finished and they would find out where the two of us were eating and get the waiters to spit in our dinner.

From previous experience its usually the people from the west of Greece that behave badly, this was from Brits....... Apart from that the south and north Ionian was still the same and don't let the BBC put you off going, in fact I think it is 10% cheaper.

Anyone else had this experience?

Yes, and also in the Ionian. The lead boats then were Aussies and Kiwis. It's a double-edged sword though. Of course they come in late because their clients want to sail, then they all want to be together for the evening. Perfectly understandable if a tad ambitious. On the other hand those of us in our own boats who take the trouble to arrive somewhere early to be sure of getting a decent space should not have to suffer being jumped by a flot just when we're in our decent clothes and heading out to dinner.

In my experience though the flot leaders in many cases make matters worse. If they tried to see things from the boat owner's point of view and asked how many boats they could possibly raft up to us please they'd get a better response. But they know that the local tavernas are on their side (because they're bringing a lot of business in every week) and so they just don't care about you or me. On top of that many of the flot leaders are trying to look big and clever in front of the teenage daughters in the flot and it's not manly to say please (they think). Trust me on that, I know a couple of (English) flot leaders and that does indeed go on, in fact it one of the few perks of the job.

One place up there that has it right is (or was last time we were there) Port Kalamos. George, who owns the big taverna at the root of the quay, makes it his business to help boats in. He sizes you up as you come in and if you're clearly a privately owned boat he'll put you safely out of the way and not raft up any charter boats to you. Charter yachts get packed together two or three deep like sardines. They seem to love it though!

 

[Fantasie 19]

I have just returned from the Ionian and can honestly say that the flotillas, due to the changing wind patterns, leave late and come in late (6-7pm), the leaders then try to bully all the private owners to move, raft-up, etc, etc.

I was party to this and just short of having a fight (at my age) told the leader there was no way 6 boats were going to be rated up to me and my rafted to me Italian neighbour. The Italian had to explain that we both had dogs and did not want 20 plus people crossing his and my boat in the middle of the night. After much verbal abuse the Italian said he would call the police only to be told that the war had finished and they would find out where the two of us were eating and get the waiters to spit in our dinner.

From previous experience its usually the people from the west of Greece that behave badly, this was from Brits....... Apart from that the south and north Ionian was still the same and don't let the BBC put you off going, in fact I think it is 10% cheaper.

Anyone else had this experience?

I'd report them to head office minimum....

 

[Davy_S]

In most harbours yachts are moored stern to, the only way someone can raft up to you is if you are moored alongside. If this is the case then you have to expect to be rafted up. You are taking up the space of three yachts bow or stern to, what else would you expect?

 

[little_roundtop]

In most harbours yachts are moored stern to, the only way someone can raft up to you is if you are moored alongside. If this is the case then you have to expect to be rafted up. You are taking up the space of three yachts bow or stern to, what else would you expect?

Not so. In busy harbours they will try to moor other yachts bows-to in the gap between existing stern-to yachts. I've called that "rafting" because it means the outboard yachts have to climb over the inboard yachts to get ashore.

 

[Mr Cassandra]

Around the corner of Poros bay there is a delightful little cove I often anchor here for days on end,tied to the big rock, walk in to Poros for a beer and back, honestly its wonderful place to be.

Except the Sunsail flotillas have found it and bring in 10 boats who then anchor over my chain at 90*, sideto the prevailing wind .By the time they are deemed safe by the Flotilla leader 5 of them have lifted my chain. and I am asked to move. Its usually a English person in charge .The Aussies and Kiwis are not that ignorant .

 

[jordanbasset]

I find this quite surprising, I see the flotillas on a daily basis. Most of the crews are Aussies or Kiwis. They have a very difficult job to do when it gets busy (this year is quiet) they have to get all their punters in safely, somewhere. I have never seen them raft up to private boats, they normally have a space saved for them (prebooked) and will raft up together if they need to. They are very good at helping other yachts who find mooring with a crosswind a little daunting.

Yes its still quite cheap, but always check the menu first!

Agree with much of what you say, although in Frikes it is common to be rafted up when side to for example, which we expect and have no problem with. In fact the last time we were there we got invited to the Neilson punch party as we go out of our way to help fellow yachties, whether on their own boat or a flotilla.
Have never been asked to raft to when stern to but have seen them do it with their own boats.

I have of course met the odd shirty flotilla skipper, normally put it down to them having a bad day. One such instance was in Sivota when the flotilla crew told a chap on a charter boat he could not berth where he wanted to. There was limited space left and he had 3 young kids on board, as we were next door I shouted I would help him in and told the flotilla crew they could not reserve spaces. A few dirty looks but you can't please all the people all the time.

However on the whole I find flotilla crews friendly and they try to go out of their way not to upset people, but it must be difficult to get 12 boats in a limited space and with a limited amount of experience from some of their customers.

 

[Cardo]

I went on a flotilla holiday last year and I thought our kiwi skipper was very accommodating. The only issue we had was when we had moored alongside awaiting two of the other flotilla boats to raft up to us. A large yacht chartered by Aussies steamed in past the other two boats and then "rafted" up against us by ramming our boat with no fenders of their own and with our skipper shouting asking what the heck they were doing. We were 30' whilst they were 42' and the charter skipper simply said he was mooring there and if we didn't like it we could move.
Tw.at.

 

[Chris_Robb]

In most harbours yachts are moored stern to, the only way someone can raft up to you is if you are moored alongside. If this is the case then you have to expect to be rafted up. You are taking up the space of three yachts bow or stern to, what else would you expect?

About the only place I know where you have to go along side is Frikas on Ithaca. If you are along side anywhere else when it is traditional to go stern to, then you are being extremely selfish.

 

[Carl Edwards]

Oh dear,
I am heading off down their with my wife and daughter in 3 weeks time. Yes, it's on a flotilla. I'm trying to convert them you see.

I won't mention the company we're going with at this stage.
Do you know the name of the company that gave you the trouble ?

 

[duncan99210]

The only time we've ever had a problem with the flotillas was in Frikes. We were asked by one lot to let them raft up - we were alongside and expected it we agreed. What we didn't do was to point out the finer points of using our boat as a pontoon..... so we got happy people arriving back on board at o'dark o'clock including a wonderful lovers tiff delivered at high volume. I was on the point of offering my opinion when they someone else told them to shut up...
Next day, another flotilla appeared and asked to raft up. We again ageed but asked the skipper to make sure fols took of their shoes before crossing the boat, that if they were arriving back on board late to cross the boat quietly etc etc. He set it up so that 3 boats with families on board moored to us, they were all good as gold and in bed before us.
As far as getting a really agressive type like the OP encountered, then the best answer is to note the name of the company and his boat name and fire off a testy email to the company. May not do any good but at least you'll feel a little better.

 

[Mr Cassandra]

Oh dear,
I am heading off down their with my wife and daughter in 3 weeks time. Yes, it's on a flotilla. I'm trying to convert them you see.

I won't mention the company we're going with at this stage.
Do you know the name of the company that gave you the trouble ?

Don't worry you will have a fantastic time, it just us liveaboards and owners getting nervous when you come close and drop anchor over us ENJOY

 

[Davy_S]

Not so. In busy harbours they will try to moor other yachts bows-to in the gap between existing stern-to yachts. I've called that "rafting" because it means the outboard yachts have to climb over the inboard yachts to get ashore.

I take your point about that, well out of order!
I have seen the flotillas raft together like that, but not with private boats.
Sailing holidays will raft together if the need arises, but I have never seen them cause any problems in my local harbour.

 

[Davy_S]

Oh dear,
I am heading off down their with my wife and daughter in 3 weeks time. Yes, it's on a flotilla. I'm trying to convert them you see.

I won't mention the company we're going with at this stage.
Do you know the name of the company that gave you the trouble ?

The good point about a Flotilla is that the skippers do the donkey work for you. All you need to do is chill out and enjoy the sunshine, and you will do!

 

[jimbaerselman]

There are a few harbours in Greece where, like it or not, you're going to moor end on, and it'll end up 2 or 3 deep, whether a flotilla is there or not. Hydra comes to mind, occasionally Fiscardo, Sivota on Levkada after the Ionian Regatta, and occasional Cyclades islands when your visit co-incides with one of those big charter rally/races full of Ozzies getting their winter sailing fix.

In those crowded mooring situations I've seen many a ratty exchange. However, none worse, and usually far less often, than in those crowded rafts normal in busy periods around the Solent, around Peter Port, or perhaps on pontoons in Dartmouth or Salcombe.

It's easy to avoid the bad spots when you're a live-aboard. You have time. It's not easy for the flotillas to avoid them - they're trying to "do" the area in 12 days.

Sure, it's not good behaviour to appear to be rude to your temporary neighbours. But when running flots in the distant past, I have seen some appallingly selfish mooring habits being used by private boats.

The classic - lying alongside for a couple of weeks in a busy harbour, with two lines to anchors lying off the beam "to prevent too much chafe to my fenders, and to keep you b****rs out of the way of my boat when I'm away."

It works both ways.

 

[tcm]

I have just returned from the Ionian and can honestly say that the flotillas, due to the changing wind patterns, leave late and come in late (6-7pm), the leaders then try to bully all the private owners to move, raft-up, etc, etc.

I was party to this and just short of having a fight (at my age) told the leader there was no way 6 boats were going to be rated up to me and my rafted to me Italian neighbour. The Italian had to explain that we both had dogs and did not want 20 plus people crossing his and my boat in the middle of the night. After much verbal abuse the Italian said he would call the police only to be told that the war had finished and they would find out where the two of us were eating and get the waiters to spit in our dinner.

From previous experience its usually the people from the west of Greece that behave badly, this was from Brits....... Apart from that the south and north Ionian was still the same and don't let the BBC put you off going, in fact I think it is 10% cheaper.

Anyone else had this experience?

Yes, actually - i rented a sundial boat and the slot leaders sorta behaved in the swaggering manner you describe - tried to tell me how to re-moor the boat to which i sed i'm the skipper and i say it's okay,. see? ... but if they fancy adding more lines, no problem. Other remarks in various places. Not nice.

 

[little_roundtop]

Oh dear,
I am heading off down their with my wife and daughter in 3 weeks time. Yes, it's on a flotilla. I'm trying to convert them you see.

I won't mention the company we're going with at this stage.
Do you know the name of the company that gave you the trouble ?

Last time we were up there, which was a couple of years ago, Nielson's were by far the best, we rarely even heard their flots arrive. Sailing Holidays were mostly ok. The absolute pain in the nether regions were Scumsail, and not just an isolated flot either but almost every one we came across..

 

[spencerd]

Take all your points and indeed this was in Frikes as some of you guessed. Have been there off and on for the last 10 years with no problem whatsoever untill last year when a flot skipper asked if it was OK to raft a couple of boats only to return from Stavros (village up the hill) to find 6 boats.

I asked them if they would mind not walking on the deck with their shoes on and provided a large mat and a place to put their shoes. I found that most of them decided that they couldn't be bothered and walked into the village with shoes off. Took two hours of scrubbing decks to get rid of the red dust mud.

The second time was a bunch of lads in three boats decided to drink Frikes dry of Ouzo, came back at 4am, crashed into everything possible, but they had taken their shoes off before boarding. I told them that they must have woken the whole town up. They did apologise and said that they intended to stay up all night but the taverna had run out of Ouzo.....makes you think!

It is not the rafting up thats a problem it's just some flot sailers should have more respect for other peoples boats, and thats the problem.

 

[jimbaerselman]

Last time we were up there, which was a couple of years ago, Nielson's were by far the best, we rarely even heard their flots arrive. Sailing Holidays were mostly ok. The absolute pain in the nether regions were Scumsail, and not just an isolated flot either but almost every one we came across..

Interesting. Neilsons mostly Brit Staff, quite a few employed year round (ski-ing). Sailing Holidays - Brit and NZ staff mix, mostly seasonal (well Barry the Boss came from NZ, so why not?). Sunnysail, seasonal staff, quite a lot of OZ getting their winter sun fix.

I can't say I've noticed much difference watching from afar. But seeing the Sunsail ducks being called in one by one, driving in reverse into Vassiliki harbour, dropping hook on orders (and being roundly ticked off for ignoring the marshal's orders), I decided the premium prices weren't really worth it . . . I prefer to barge in my own way.