Pushing for Genset Recall - Design Flaw causing high temps, failures

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elmaceh

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We are a volunteer based non-profit working in Aceh and Nias. We recently purchased a gen-set from a well known Dutch maker for our aid vessel. After repeated failures we have carefully analysed the unit and we have discovered a serious design fault causing cooling air to recycle through the silent housing.

The recycling of hot air is causing very high temperatures in the housing and and we are convinced that this has caused diode failure at low loads. Without question high temperatures are compromising the performance and longevity of the unit.

See: http://www.network54.com/Forum/493700/ for a technical explanation.

The company is denying any warranty responsibility and being rude and insulting in response to our requests for resolution.

Which organization(s) can forum members recommend to assist us in seeking either resolution or failing that, a public airing of this unfortunate situation. We believe that ALL the gen sets made by this manufacturer should be recalled for modification and so we contend that this is a matter of public interest.

Hope you can assist.
Rick Cameron
Mission Coordinator
http://www.island-aid.org
 
I am surprised that Vetus have taken such a stance as they are a reputable company? they are however, only a merchant I believe? in that they supply from other sources with their own label so I guess that their supplier is perhaps feeding them misinformation regarding the merchantable quality of the unit. I have always wondered how one gets the air into a silent generator and doesn`t let the sound out ? It sounds as if the balance needs redressing. With regards to getting your funds back, I can`t see that happening with the price of International Law etc, and again I am surprised by Vetus`s attitude, I guess that a baffled 240v fan could be incooperated to induce more air into the cooling side of the casing, which switches on immediately the unit starts. may be a cheap longterm fix, but no satisfactory out come!

What are the units used in the construction of the Generator (alternator motor electronics etc?) Perhaps if you wrote to the manufacturers of these, individually, explaing your findings they could advise both you and vetus if the setup is suitable, or of a suitable modification. they certainly wouldn`t want their products used in a damaging situation, such as it appears to be at the moment?
 
I have sent you a reply directly but have just looked at the specifications of the machine.

The engine is the Mitsubishi M2.C5 which Vetus quotes as 8.2kW or 11Hp on the flywheel. Rough calculation is it should produce 5.5kW.

The generator is the BL105F from Markon. All looks good.

Vetus states the regulation is +/-5% between 0.8 inductive and 1.0.

However, I do not have access to the output curves at present but www.macgen.com/markon quotes it as a +-7.5%.

Also Markon says it is only designed for 1.0 power factor. It is inherent in the brushless design. The brush version SL105 is for the 0.8 power factor. See http://www.newage-avkseg.com/english/content/download/newage/manuals/105/105-english.pdf

I do not know if the engine output figures include the low voltage alternator output. Even charging a battery at 14v and 40Amps is just less than 1 kW missing from the engine output. (including the belts etc.)

Also see section 2.2 in the Markon manual on air flow
There is also a mention in the Markon website about softstarts and motor problems.

The Markon SL105 unit is wonderful unit and has run my water maker all the way around the world for me. Its is easy to maintain and the support of parts while we were in Australia was excellent. We were in the southern bay of Phuket during the Tsunami.
 
[ QUOTE ]
By the way your web site isnt functioning correctly!

[/ QUOTE ]

Hey Robind, website seems fine on my Mac. Can you please tell me what aspect of it is not functional?

As for Vetus being reputable? That was certainly my view before I purchased this genset. Vetus design and develop in house and then subcontact the work of assembly to others. In this case my issue is with the design and the more we live with this genset them more convinced we are that excessive heat is the main problem. We are looking at sources of suitable thermometers to confirm actual temps in the housing.
Rick
 
[ QUOTE ]
I have sent you a reply directly but have just looked at the specifications of the machine.

The engine is the Mitsubishi M2.C5 which Vetus quotes as 8.2kW or 11Hp on the flywheel. Rough calculation is it should produce 5.5kW.

The generator is the BL105F from Markon. All looks good.

Vetus states the regulation is +/-5% between 0.8 inductive and 1.0.

However, I do not have access to the output curves at present but www.macgen.com/markon quotes it as a +-7.5%.

Also Markon says it is only designed for 1.0 power factor. It is inherent in the brushless design. The brush version SL105 is for the 0.8 power factor. See http://www.newage-avkseg.com/english/content/download/newage/manuals/105/105-english.pdf

I do not know if the engine output figures include the low voltage alternator output. Even charging a battery at 14v and 40Amps is just less than 1 kW missing from the engine output. (including the belts etc.)

Also see section 2.2 in the Markon manual on air flow
There is also a mention in the Markon website about softstarts and motor problems.

The Markon SL105 unit is wonderful unit and has run my water maker all the way around the world for me. Its is easy to maintain and the support of parts while we were in Australia was excellent. We were in the southern bay of Phuket during the Tsunami.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks SolarNiel for your hard work on this. I have contacted Markon and am waiting for them to come back with maximum recommended operating temps for the BL105F and to clarify the apparent discrepency between the specs on their site and the specs in the Vetus handbook.

The factory has advised that we should not exceed 3,100rpm no-load so we have backed off the throttle slightly (we set at 3,150rpm). This causes our voltage to drop to 210v ac. At 3,150 we could hold 220v and so came within the specified tolerance of 5% as quoted in the Vetus handbook. It is strange that Macgen states voltage control = 7.5% for the same unit. In any case our equipment can all handle the lower volts and the engine works a little less hard. Vetus have finally mailed me offering to 'study my case' but they warn that will take some time. They also asked me to remove my website. Guess that is some kind of progress. Thanks and will update.
 
Extract from the Markon Manual:

2.2 AIRFLOW
The generator should be positioned so that the cooling air may enter and leave the machine without restriction. Inadequate ventilation to the generator will lead to serious overheating and subsequent damage to the windings.

The way the alternator is vented into the silent enclosure reduces air flow significantly. Hot air can only escape via 5 small holes. This alone is in breach of Markon's requirements. Worse still the air that can escape is drawn back into the alternator where the windings are generating a lot of heat. This is the core weakness of the Vetus design. Both the alternator and the engine are heating the circulating air. No wonder the unit is too hot to touch!

We have now established that our first diode failure also coincided with a rotor winding failure. We only found that out when we tried to reinstall the old rotor with new diodes. At that time we were running the genset with the full silent enclosure as supplied. ie with no relief ventilation at all. Our second failure did not damage the rotor. We fitted a spare set of diodes to our second rotor and it work fine. The second failure occurred after we removed a small inspection panel on the silent enclosure allowing at least some hot air to escape. We have now removed all silent enclosure panels and so far we have not had any breakdown.

All our findings support our contention that the design of the enclosure causes hot air to recycle and this is the cause of our problems.
 
Markon SL105

;856271 said:
I have sent you a reply directly but have just looked at the specifications of the machine.

The engine is the Mitsubishi M2.C5 which Vetus quotes as 8.2kW or 11Hp on the flywheel. Rough calculation is it should produce 5.5kW.

The generator is the BL105F from Markon. All looks good.

Vetus states the regulation is +/-5% between 0.8 inductive and 1.0.

However, I do not have access to the output curves at present but www.macgen.com/markon quotes it as a +-7.5%.

Also Markon says it is only designed for 1.0 power factor. It is inherent in the brushless design. The brush version SL105 is for the 0.8 power factor. See http://www.newage-avkseg.com/english/content/download/newage/manuals/105/105-english.pdf

I do not know if the engine output figures include the low voltage alternator output. Even charging a battery at 14v and 40Amps is just less than 1 kW missing from the engine output. (including the belts etc.)

Also see section 2.2 in the Markon manual on air flow
There is also a mention in the Markon website about softstarts and motor problems.

The Markon SL105 unit is wonderful unit and has run my water maker all the way around the world for me. Its is easy to maintain and the support of parts while we were in Australia was excellent. We were in the southern bay of Phuket during the Tsunami.
Click to expand...

Hi, I have one of these Markons a 7.5kva that I bought of ebay, I have managed to get all the missing bits (brush box and AVR) but cannot find a diagram that shows where the wires come from or go to the brushes.
please advise if you have any idea.
regards
malce
 
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