Push-Together Water Connections

[trapezeartist]

I have a leak from my domestic water system into the bilge. After a bit of poking around I traced it to the hot outlet from the calorifier. It's the plastic fitting going into brass.

Can anyone explain to me how these fittings come apart? All the other similar fittings seem to have a bit of axial free-play on them but the leaking one is rigid. Perhaps because it has never been pushed home properly?

Each fitting has a white plastic ring which rotates but doesn't do much else. I fancy that might be something to do with releasing the connector though.

 

[nimbusgb]

You need to push the collar back towards the body of the connector with one hand and pull out the plastic pipe with the other. Video here http://www.diydoctor.org.uk/projects/speedfit.htm

it looks as if the red hose may be loaded a bit by the bend and it is leaking past the o-ring.

To completely remove the plastic speedfit tee you may have to undo the brass nut.

 

[alan17]

Releasing push fittings

Some types cannot be released. Others you push the ring into the fitting and pull fitting off the pipe. You may need to push quite hard and at the same time pull fiting off. I find this a tad tricky as you are both pulling and pushing the fitting at the same time.

 

[prv]

There are several different kinds of push-fit fitting, and I'm not familiar with that one. However, I suspect you need to push the pipe into the fitting, together with the plastic ring closest to the pipe. Then hold the plastic ring as far in as possible, while pulling the pipe outwards. The rotating collar may be some kind of locking piece to prevent the ring being pushed inwards by mistake, so you may need to overcome it somehow.

Finally, some kinds of push-fit are not designed to come apart at all. You'd hope a boatbuilder wouldn't use these, but who knows?

Pete

 

[Bav34]

Oi !!!

What you doing taking photos inside my boat ?

Had exactly the same problem this year. The weight/leverage of the hot water pipe was supposed to be taken by a U-clip but had been knocked out at some time and all the leverage was on the actual plastic fitting into the calorifier.

Tried for ages to get the fitting off ... turning the collar, pushing/pulling etc.

Eventually had to pay for a French plumber to come and do a temporary bodge job which actually works brilliantly.

The pipes and fittings are all supplied by Whale from whom I had brilliant customer service.

When you look at our fittings they are white with a grey insert sleeve
(collet). The fitting is removed by pushing the grey collet back inside
the fitting and holding it in whilst you pull the pipe out. The Grey
collet has teeth which grips the pipe. By pushing the grey collett in
you are releasing the teeth which then allows you to pull out. Sometimes
these can be a little stiff so you may need to get a pair of pliers to
push the collet in and lever the pipe out.

I hope this helps.

Regards,
Aiden Devlin
Technical/Customer Support
Munster Simms Engineering Ltd
Whale Pumps
P: +44 (0)28 9127 6511
F: +44 (0)28 9146 6421
E: mailto:aidend@whalepumps.com
Munster Simms Engineering Ltd trading as WhalePumps.com.
Registered Office 277-279 Old Belfast Road, Bangor BT19 1LT, Registered
No. N.I. 6278

I had already thrown the fitting away, attached to the small piece of pipe that had to be cut off but at least I'll know what to do in future.

Good luck

 

[savageseadog]

I've come across a couple of issues with push fit plumbing that it might be worth revealing.

One issue is that similar looking (and size) fittings might have components that don't interchange.

There are fittings made for imperial and proprietary sizes that won't fit the pipes you have.

It's important to clean off the burrs in the pipework ends if you are using a saw to cut.

 

[pagoda]

I have a leak from my domestic water system into the bilge. After a bit of poking around I traced it to the hot outlet from the calorifier. It's the plastic fitting going into brass.

Can anyone explain to me how these fittings come apart? All the other similar fittings seem to have a bit of axial free-play on them but the leaking one is rigid. Perhaps because it has never been pushed home properly?

Each fitting has a white plastic ring which rotates but doesn't do much else. I fancy that might be something to do with releasing the connector though.

Push fit plumbing fittings are the DEVIL in boats, since boats flex & move...

After a lot of frustration and leaks , I replaced about 5 million inherited elbows etc in hard push-fit pipework / connectors with point to point car heater hose. Simple worm drive clips all round, no elbows etc & no hassle.
Maybe a step back in time? To a simpler to deal with time!!!
I did insulate the flow & return appropriately.

Lots easier....

 

[Plevier]

I dealt with a leak in the same place on a friend's Bav30 this year.
In his case the red pipe had split just above the sharp bend coming up from under the calorifier.
Unfortunately this pipe from Whale is just solid soft plastic - polypropylene I think - and only rated for 65deg. His 'stat had gone on the blink and the water was almost boiling. This caused the pipe to split in this already stressed area.
It's much better to replace it with proper house standard pipe such as Speedfit this is rated for 95deg at 3 Bars pressure.
Speedfit fittings are also better than the Whale having positive locking but still being reusable, release the same way as the Whale ones. They are compatible dimensionally. You can have Whale pipe into a coupling at one side and Speedfit at the other. You should use stiffening inserts in the end of the pipe but at boat pump pressure it probably doesn't matter.
You can get Speedfit at Wickes, B&Q or almost any builders merchants.
There are other compatible makes but Speedfit is probably the market leader.

Just noticed Savageseadog's comment - the Whale pipe is 15mm OD and is interchangeable with Speedfit etc. BTW you can also use Speedfit couplings on 15mm copper.

 

[ProDave]

Push fit plumbing fittings are the DEVIL in boats, since boats flex & move...

They are the devil anywhere.

I wouldn't have them in my home, let alone my boat.

They exist for one purpose, and one purpose only, to allow "non plumbers" to pretend they are capable of plumbing.

 

[prv]

They exist for one purpose, and one purpose only, to allow "non plumbers" to pretend they are capable of plumbing.

They exist in order to allow plumbers working for ticky-tacky boxbuilders (Barretts etc) to throw together the maximum number of bathrooms etc in a day.

Pete

 

[trapezeartist]

Nimbusgb, I think you're right about the weight of all the pipes causing the leak. Fortunately one of the pipes is to a deck shower that I don't use so once I have got it apart I can simplify the whole thing. The connectors aren't quite like in the video though.

The problem I have is that while all the other fittings have some axial motion, the offending connector doesn't. The collars have a variable axial length around their circumference so I'm wondering if the tabs have to be flexed in some way to come apart. I'll try next time I go down to the boat.

Fortunately I can simplify the set-up once I get it apart. One of the pipes is for a deck shower that I don't use so leaving that out will simplify and lighten the whole thing and therefore take some of the load off.

Thanks, All. I'll report back when I've had another go at it.

 

[trapezeartist]

Bav34, the hoses and connectors I have look identical to the catalogue on the Whale website. So I now know from there how the connections should disassemble.

 

[nimbusgb]

Nimbusgb, I think you're right about the weight of all the pipes causing the leak. Fortunately one of the pipes is to a deck shower that I don't use so once I have got it apart I can simplify the whole thing. The connectors aren't quite like in the video though.

The problem I have is that while all the other fittings have some axial motion, the offending connector doesn't. The collars have a variable axial length around their circumference so I'm wondering if the tabs have to be flexed in some way to come apart. I'll try next time I go down to the boat.

Fortunately I can simplify the set-up once I get it apart. One of the pipes is for a deck shower that I don't use so leaving that out will simplify and lighten the whole thing and therefore take some of the load off.

Thanks, All. I'll report back when I've had another go at it.

It could be that the offending connections have as you say either partially dissasembled themselves or perhaps never been correctly seated.

 

[Seajet]

I worked in domestic emergency plumbing for 5 years.

Speedfit has it's place, it isn't just lazy; for example the blanking caps are a neat and tidy way to avoid drips or worse during a change of kit.

However, it is not at all tolerant of poor alignments.

It also has an insulating effect where systems should be electrically bonded.

Boat owners would probably be best using the stainless flexible pipes available with speedfit ends made on, available at any decent plumbing supplier such as 'Plumbcentre' and the better DIY stores, combined with suitable supporting clips.

 

[trapezeartist]

The leaking joint didn't have the axial free-play because it was bunged up with cal. I cleaned it all up and put it back together but it still leaked. I suspect that it has been gently cooked as it is the brass fitting which screws straight to the calorifier. Whale rate the system to 65º, but my hot water is nearly boiling.

I'll replace the fitting and then see about how to turn down the water temperature.

 

[gianenrico]

They are the devil anywhere.

I wouldn't have them in my home, let alone my boat.

They exist for one purpose, and one purpose only, to allow "non plumbers" to pretend they are capable of plumbing.

Yep!!
As a matter of fact, that was the reason why I re-plumbed my previous boat (which had 4 soft plastic water tanks) using a famous english push-collar type of connectors.
Perfectly satisfied, no more leaks, possibility to fill with water 1,2 or 3 tanks, possibility to empty one at a time and bring it home for washing and cleaning, etc. etc. etc.

Mind You, I'not a plumber!!

Ah, yes, no leaks at all.

 

[trapezeartist]

The Final Solution

I tried to get an identical replacement fitting but one source had a minimum order of 40 pieces (!) and another couldn't get the bit for four weeks.

I went to Plumb Centre with the old bit and asked for a replacement. They came up with a much smaller all-plastic alternative. Price £1.60

I screwed the new fitting onto the calorifier, pushed in the 15mm pipe and voila! Job done in 30 seconds. No leaks.