Purchase of a UK Registered yacht in Greek waters by a Non UK citizen as a liveaboard option...

[ConorB]

Greetings All, I do hope you will be able to assist a fellow mature sailor here. I am an Irish National and am looking at purchasing a 50 year old yacht off a very nice UK Resident for circa £5,000. I am just wondering are there any issues buying in Greece, or any difficulties re-registering her on the Greek Register as I don't hold a UK address and I intend to keep the boat on Greek waters and live aboard for hopefully half the year initially. Any helpful comments will be much appreciated... I did attempt a similar venture 18 months ago, but the then UK owners fell foul of the local authorities as they had NO proof of engine nor hull numbers...

 

[Pasarell]

I claim no particular expertise but I do spend a lot of time on my UK registered boat in Greece.
I think you may be better to register in Ireland instead of Greece. There are lots of rules and regulations for registering in Greece and when done you have to conform to Greek rules which are rather more draconian than ours.
My neighbour in the marina is from Dublin and the boat is Irish registered. I don't think the rules he has to follow are any more onerous than ours in UK. For the Greek authorities there will be no issue in switching from UK to Eire registration.
Maybe someone will come along soon with specific knowledge.

 

[Irish Rover]

I don't know anything about the procedure for Greek registration and I can't help you on that count. Unfortunately Ireland does not have a small ships register like the UK so you have to go for full registration [equivalent to UK Part 1]. I did this in 2010 remotely from Turkey via e mail and correspondence and though not complicated it took some time as it is not a one stop shop - you have to deal with the Mercantile Marine Office and the register of ships which is part of the revenue commissioners. The biggest obstacle is the need for a Tonnage Survey and the cost thereof. I actually got a tonnage survey done in Preveza in 2017 for Jersey registration and luckily there is an approved British surveyor based locally. There may be others in Greece.
I know others won't approve, but my recommendation is to find someone you know in NI who will let you use their address for UK SSR.

 

[Tony Cross]

I think trying to put her on the Greek register will prove to be way more complex than you imagine. I'm fairly certain you'll require a tax number and that commits you to filing Greek tax returns every year (even if you have no Greek tax to pay) and you'll probably have to register your long term presence in Greece too (thought that's an fairly simple one-time process).

As an Irish national your best option is to put her on the Irish flag. Having the boat have the same 'nationality' as her owner keeps things nice and simple and you certainly want her under an EU flag too.

 

[ConorB]

I claim no particular expertise but I do spend a lot of time on my UK registered boat in Greece.
I think you may be better to register in Ireland instead of Greece. There are lots of rules and regulations for registering in Greece and when done you have to conform to Greek rules which are rather more draconian than ours.
My neighbour in the marina is from Dublin and the boat is Irish registered. I don't think the rules he has to follow are any more onerous than ours in UK. For the Greek authorities there will be no issue in switching from UK to Eire registration.
Maybe someone will come along soon with specific knowledge.

Thank you Pasarell, I sent you a PM.

 

[ConorB]

I don't know anything about the procedure for Greek registration and I can't help you on that count. Unfortunately Ireland does not have a small ships register like the UK so you have to go for full registration [equivalent to UK Part 1]. I did this in 2010 remotely from Turkey via e mail and correspondence and though not complicated it took some time as it is not a one stop shop - you have to deal with the Mercantile Marine Office and the register of ships which is part of the revenue commissioners. The biggest obstacle is the need for a Tonnage Survey and the cost thereof. I actually got a tonnage survey done in Preveza in 2017 for Jersey registration and luckily there is an approved British surveyor based locally. There may be others in Greece.
I know others won't approve, but my recommendation is to find someone you know in NI who will let you use their address for UK SSR.

That is indeed an option... I know trying to get her Irish Registered is a painful process, even for boats located here in Irish waters, the bureaucracy is quiet prohibitive.... So I may have to consider an Irish Solution to an Irish Problem...

 

[ConorB]

I think trying to put her on the Greek register will prove to be way more complex than you imagine. I'm fairly certain you'll require a tax number and that commits you to filing Greek tax returns every year (even if you have no Greek tax to pay) and you'll probably have to register your long term presence in Greece too (thought that's an fairly simple one-time process).

As an Irish national your best option is to put her on the Irish flag. Having the boat have the same 'nationality' as her owner keeps things nice and simple and you certainly want her under an EU flag too.

Hi Tony,
I am heading over to Lefkada/ Nydri to consider a couple of boats for liveaboard potential... any suggestions will be seriously considered, but the two vessels I am currently considering are on the SSR, so I have no problem continuing that arrangement, or does the recent Brexit situation complicate that scenario going forward... This is the vital info I am hoping to gleen from liveaboards on here who are experiencing these issues first hand... Again thanks Tony for your helpful contribution

Kind regards,

Conor

 

[Irish Rover]

At your budget level you may not want to spend money on a survey but if you do there's a very good British guy based in Lefkas marina. my advice would be to stay away from the broker in tbe same marina. Plenty of UK ex pat liveaboards around there who are generous with help and advice.

 

[ConorB]

Again, Irish Rover, I appreciate your advice... I will certainly contact the Surveyor as he may be aware of a bit of value, but I have some expensive experience gained since I purchased my Rival 34..., so I will be a sharper Buyer this time around...

Again, Thanks Irish Rover

 

[Tony Cross]

Hi Tony,
I am heading over to Lefkada/ Nydri to consider a couple of boats for liveaboard potential... any suggestions will be seriously considered, but the two vessels I am currently considering are on the SSR, so I have no problem continuing that arrangement, or does the recent Brexit situation complicate that scenario going forward... This is the vital info I am hoping to gleen from liveaboards on here who are experiencing these issues first hand... Again thanks Tony for your helpful contribution

Kind regards,

Conor

You can't just continue the SSR, as soon as the boat is sold the existing registration becomes null and void. To re-register her on the SSR you need to be a UK resident.

Why do you seem resistant to putting her on the Irish register? That would be the most logical and sensible thing to do...

 

[Irish Rover]

You can't just continue the SSR, as soon as the boat is sold the existing registration becomes null and void. To re-register her on the SSR you need to be a UK resident.

Why do you seem resistant to putting her on the Irish register? That would be the most logical and sensible thing to do...

Re-registration on SSR takes around 5 minutes on the internet. You don't need to be a UK resident you just need a UK address .
See my #3 above. Ireland has no SSR equivalent so you have to go for UK Part 1 equivalent which requires a tonnage survey. The system in Ireland is also more complicated as it's not a one stop shop like the UK. OP's talking about a budget of £5k. Getting on Irish register would cost 20% of that. Additionally getting a ships radio licence in Ireland is also more complicated whereas with Ofcom it's another 5 minutes on the net. Us Paddies have no qualms about putting our nationalism aside when it's convenient to do so.

 

[Tony Cross]

Re-registration on SSR takes around 5 minutes on the internet. You don't need to be a UK resident you just need a UK address .
See my #3 above. Ireland has no SSR equivalent so you have to go for UK Part 1 equivalent which requires a tonnage survey. The system in Ireland is also more complicated as it's not a one stop shop like the UK. OP's talking about a budget of £5k. Getting on Irish register would cost 20% of that. Additionally getting a ships radio licence in Ireland is also more complicated whereas with Ofcom it's another 5 minutes on the net. Us Paddies have no qualms about putting our nationalism aside when it's convenient to do so.

I realise of course that all you need is a UK address, but the very first sentence on the SSR registration page says this (my highlighting)...

The Small Ships Register (SSR) provides a simple form of non-title registration for eligible UK residents who own pleasure vessels that are less than 24 metres in overall length.

Ignoring that means you have made a false declaration which (technically at least) invalidates your registration.

 

[Irish Rover]

I don't know about the OP but trust me, Tony, if making a false declaration to the registrar is anywhere near the top of my list of sins when I reach the Pearly Gate I'll be a very relieved man.

 

[ConorB]

You can't just continue the SSR, as soon as the boat is sold the existing registration becomes null and void. To re-register her on the SSR you need to be a UK resident.

Why do you seem resistant to putting her on the Irish register? That would be the most logical and sensible thing to do...

LOGICAL.. the man says... Indeed it is Tony... However, it is a maze of bureaucracy, and that is for boats based here locally in Irish waters... trying to achieve it from such a great distance would add layers of complexity which would baffle anyone who is accustomed to the SSR process. Registering her using a UK address, and then subsequently, re addressing her to a Republic of Ireland address resolves this issue all round...