Psychological issues on transat/long ocean passages

tcm

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All the rallies completely ignore this. Perhaps because with all the admin the organisers become fairly free of emotion of any description, like how to crack jokes or have a good laugh about things.

Be that as it may be ... I do think that they should be considered.

When finding crew, far above any issues of sailorisng skills (cos there's fewer sail changes on a transat than on Sunday morning round the cans...) I would always value the ability to get along with the rest of the crew and be a source of fun and happiness and/or calm rather than someone who might consume vast anoints of time with panic attacks, boredom, gloom, frustration. I only dismissed one guy on the dock even though he had flown in. Mind Stingo told me to. Well, no he didn't tell me, but he dd say he'd pay his taxi back to the airport when polled for his view. Ahem.

For myself, i recently did a solo transat and i was aware/ware of possible issues of loneliness of being down. Several mates pointed out that I might def have problems "cos you like people" they said. So with one such mate i said ooh not particularly i don't think , but he said oh yes u bloody well are - you just paid for dinner which hardly any other mate does - just you. Hm

Actually on the transat itself, I never felt bored or lonely - I just frequently thought "this crew is a bit crap!" or something like that. I'd be ok doing most of the watches but at least someone could make som food oh er no, forgot, no crew. I would start this train of thought at least once a day - just for a second or less times a day. Hah.

Now at the end of post, even when opening a new topic, I would normally act though we're all adults and hence me telling you the above in conversational form might obviously induce you reply with your own experiences, or comments about mine, or even about the post itself. I'd leave just to do this.

BUT !!!! since the numpties have moved in, I see that the reading age is assumed to have dropped to single digits. So in that very same style...

Have you had any similar experiences sailing oceans for couple of weeks or more? Perhaps you've had different experiences? What do you think? And .. Is it nice being asked to respond to a conversation as though you're a nine year old? Is that much nicer, do you think, or would you fecking prefer it if we all behaved like adults and when I say something like the above then yerknow, it would be normal behaviour for you to respond relevantly like yerknow, am adult conversation? Or do you speak to everyone as though they are none years old? Or does it make you think I'm a bit thick imagining that others can't hold or progress and develop a conversation without being prompted? Harumph! Much better, sorry.
 

geem

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All the rallies completely ignore this. Perhaps because with all the admin the organisers become fairly free of emotion of any description, like how to crack jokes or have a good laugh about things.

Be that as it may be ... I do think that they should be considered.

When finding crew, far above any issues of sailorisng skills (cos there's fewer sail changes on a transat than on Sunday morning round the cans...) I would always value the ability to get along with the rest of the crew and be a source of fun and happiness and/or calm rather than someone who might consume vast anoints of time with panic attacks, boredom, gloom, frustration. I only dismissed one guy on the dock even though he had flown in. Mind Stingo told me to. Well, no he didn't tell me, but he dd say he'd pay his taxi back to the airport when polled for his view. Ahem.

For myself, i recently did a solo transat and i was aware/ware of possible issues of loneliness of being down. Several mates pointed out that I might def have problems "cos you like people" they said. So with one such mate i said ooh not particularly i don't think , but he said oh yes u bloody well are - you just paid for dinner which hardly any other mate does - just you. Hm

Actually on the transat itself, I never felt bored or lonely - I just frequently thought "this crew is a bit crap!" or something like that. I'd be ok doing most of the watches but at least someone could make som food oh er no, forgot, no crew. I would start this train of thought at least once a day - just for a second or less times a day. Hah.

Now at the end of post, even when opening a new topic, I would normally act though we're all adults and hence me telling you the above in conversational form might obviously induce you reply with your own experiences, or comments about mine, or even about the post itself. I'd leave just to do this.

BUT !!!! since the numpties have moved in, I see that the reading age is assumed to have dropped to single digits. So in that very same style...

Have you had any similar experiences sailing oceans for couple of weeks or more? Perhaps you've had different experiences? What do you think? And .. Is it nice being asked to respond to a conversation as though you're a nine year old? Is that much nicer, do you think, or would you fecking prefer it if we all behaved like adults and when I say something like the above then yerknow, it would be normal behaviour for you to respond relevantly like yerknow, am adult conversation? Or do you speak to everyone as though they are none years old? Or does it make you think I'm a bit thick imagining that others can't hold or progress and develop a conversation without being prompted? Harumph! Much better, sorry.
Hi Matt.
I did a couple of transats with just my wife. Sort of like single handed sailing in shifts but not single handing. Although we didn't see much of each other. On one night watch when I was particularly tired I was stood up in the cockpit chatting to myself when I got whacked on the head. First thought was who threw that! Realised I was on my own on deck and nobody threw the flying fish....
 

BobnLesley

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The worse thing is to be stuck with someone who has no sense of humour.

No I can think of far bigger problems in a potential crew mate; then again, I've met Stingo ; ). Why dismiss a potential crewman on John's say-so? He hates everybody.

As Matt proposes, I too see longer passages - certainly an E -> W TransAt - as being a psychological rather than physical/technical problem. I recall being stuck in the Cape Verdes for a few weeks sorting out a 'real' mechanical problem and watching a steady stream of friends and acquaintances depart ahead of us. Almost all who'd crossed before simply did the tourist bit whilst they checked/fixed-up their boats, decided on a departure date, topped off the tanks and had a couple of farewell beers, then sailed away. However, 90%+ of the first-timers did just the same, until about 12-24 hours before their departure and then discovered a new 'problem' and had to defer their departures by a few more days whilst these were resolved. I soon came to feel that these problems were psychological, rather than real, their actual difficulty was in making the final break and letting go of the land.
 

Skylark

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When finding crew, far above any issues of sailorisng skills (cos there's fewer sail changes on a transat than on Sunday morning round the cans...) I would always value the ability to get along with the rest of the crew and be a source of fun and happiness and/or calm rather than someone who might consume vast anoints of time with panic attacks, boredom, gloom, frustration.

Great post and quite timely for my personal circumstances. I'd like to cross from E to W over winter 2017/18 so I'm currently enjoying the armchair planning. My wife is very happy to fly and meet me the other side but absolutely would not sail across. I'd like to be a boat of 4 but don't know how to go about finding three crew with those very special personal characteristics.
 

npf1

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Or someone who somehow upsets the whole 'crew' balance. Got that T shirt - I set off on a W-E pond trip with six aboard, but finished with five!
 

AndrewB

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Dastardly deeds on the high seas!
Perhaps "pour encourager les autres."

I got shedded by the Brazilian port health inspectorate for writing 'Not Applicable' against their check box "Deaths at Sea" (also for the same against "Are your rats showing signs of plague?").
 

alant

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Great post and quite timely for my personal circumstances. I'd like to cross from E to W over winter 2017/18 so I'm currently enjoying the armchair planning. My wife is very happy to fly and meet me the other side but absolutely would not sail across. I'd like to be a boat of 4 but don't know how to go about finding three crew with those very special personal characteristics.

Main grouses on any ocean passages, seem to start as trivial things, like lateness in watch changing, loud chat keeping offwatch awake, lack of enthusiasm for menial cleaning galley/washing up duties, fouling of heads.
The sailing stuff is relatively easy.:D
 

srm

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Looking back over the longish sailing trips (coastal and offshore) I have done over the last 30 plus years the easiest were delivery trips. Everyone was working with the same objective - to get to the destination asap, so no significant crew friction even in bad weather. On shorter trips when we were cruising without clear objectives there was more crew friction; people had different expectations and ideas.
A few years ago I came on deck between the Hebrides and Ireland to find the watch keeper fast asleep in the corner of the cockpit. There is a lot to be said for single handing if you are comfortable with your own company. Radar watch alarm plus AIS alarm are much more reliable than novice crew who have not had the discipline of working at sea for a living.
If selecting crew be clear about your objectives and expectations (responsibilities ie watchkeeping, galley work, cleaning, etc.) Look for people with genuine seagoing experience, preferably commercial; they should have learnt how to get along in a small community.
 

RichardS

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Longest trip I've ever done was 48 hours with teenage Son.

Those of you who have raised children may well know that when a teenager says "I'm going to go and lie down for a couple of hours" you might well not see them again for 12 hours! :ambivalence:

Richard
 

tcm

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Great post and quite timely for my personal circumstances. I'd like to cross from E to W over winter 2017/18 so I'm currently enjoying the armchair planning. My wife is very happy to fly and meet me the other side but absolutely would not sail across. I'd like to be a boat of 4 but don't know how to go about finding three crew with those very special personal characteristics.

Ok, but unless you are having psychological problems about the impending trip (and i don't think you are...) the i think that should be a new thread "how do i find transat crew?" or similar. You start it, i'll reply if you like :- )
 

syneraida

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I can not agree more with @srm more. Clearly identifying objectives and expectations make for the happiest of vessels whether sailing offshore or round the corner. I have sailed around 30 thousand miles and also worked on merchant ships for 8 years and can say that giving everyone the same goal and clearly agreeing expectations before leaving makes for much easier sailing.
 

Skylark

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Ok, but unless you are having psychological problems about the impending trip (and i don't think you are...) the i think that should be a new thread "how do i find transat crew?" or similar. You start it, i'll reply if you like :- )

Dear tcm,

Do you have any plans from November 2017?

No, I don't have psychological problems about the trip, I just worry that others may have psychological issues with me! I'm anal about keeping my boat clean and tidy (unlike my house, car and office) and like listening to Beautiful South, Katie Melua and Caro Emerald. What's not to like?
 

boatman61

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Never done an E->W but plenty W->E both solo and with crew.. my own boats and deliveries..
Only time I had psychological ?? problems was my first solo non-stop crossing from SMX to Salcombe, UK..
Had no hallucinations however 'voice's' when down below in the quarter berth started after a couple of weeks into the trip.. these came and went and I put it down to the mind trying to compensate for the solitude so paid it no great mind.. but when the tiller pilot started talking to me.. that was weird.. its amazing the tricks the mind can play.. the ram moving backwards and forwards it made different sounds depending on the length of travel.. but again.. identified and laughed at.
My one 'Serious' moment was about 1000nm from Falmouth and due North of the Azores.. light winds and calms had slowed me to 30-40nm/day and less.. then I had 5 days of mirror conditions where my SOG was dictated by the currents..
The 3rd day of this saw me sitting on the cabin top late 'avo' watching a couple of dolphins and reflecting on the amazing things I'd seen/experienced and the wonder of the world I was in.. I just wanted to sail on forever.. kinda how I imagine Motessier felt before he threw the race and altered course to go round again.. but.. I was already on short rations of lentils, chicken stock cubes and pan bread so knew that was not an option.
Thoughts then turned to 'home'.. sort a marina/mooring, find work, the filth and press of life in London squeezed into a metal tube with hundreds of others 2hrs every day... and this enormous sadness came over me as I hit my 'Crowhurst' moment..
I stood up and looked into the clear blue depths and around this awesome world then back down... it would be so easy.. just one step and goodbye shitty world of man...
Then the 2 dolphins swam into my view with the most beautiful perfect baby dolphin possible...
Never had a moment like that again.. the trip took 47days in total.. had planned an Azores stop but was having to much fun..
As for crew.. if I can get away with it just one is all I take.. unless insurances stipulate more for Transat, S Pacific Deliveries.. all I ask of them is a 4hr watch in the night to grab some kip.. the other 20hrs are for whatever they feel like.
 

boatmike

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Definitely yes to that Synaradia. From personal experience of single handed sailing (a long time ago now!) it is important to be confident to be in your own company for a long time as loneliness can cause strange things to happen to your state of mind. It is a great way to get to know your own strengths and weaknesses! Adding crew is sometimes (for me anyway) more difficult. You need to know that your skills in managing a crew are up to the task and that you can manage to live in a confined space with them for long periods too. If like me you are a bit anal about keeping everything clean and tidily stowed away the last thing you need is someone who is used to living in a mess.... If faced with crew who are effectively strangers it's difficult of course but I would prefer experienced strangers to "friends" who have never been there before. I think it is very important to get to know your crew before setting off and if you can try a cross channel trip or two before setting off on the big one. Synaradia is absolutely on the button in agreeing goals and expectations beforehand. Don't leave it until you are at sea before you brief your new crew on what you expect from them. As Skipper its up to you to set the tone before you leave.
 
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DownWest

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Not been on a longer trip, five nights out of site of land probably the longest. But that was the trip that I had trouble with. All others have been with people I knew well.
I was asked to retrieve a boat that had been sunk and get her back to UK. After fixing her up I and an old friend sailed her back to France, to trail the rest.. But, at the last minute, the owner decided to join us for the trip. I was the skipper and navigator, but at aged 20, to her 60 odd, it was a bit tricky. I twice had to over-rule her and it got a bit tense. I told her bluntly that I knew where we were and it was not possible to do what she was trying. Spoilt what would have been a great few days. Her saving grace was excellent cooking. A very tough lady, but should have left me to do what I had been asked.
 

capnsensible

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Have spent a few 90 plus days at sea.

I find it quite refreshing to tootle across the Atlantic in less than 30, on the roof, with lots of nice sky scenes to admire.
 
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