Provision for Boating for us with Disabilities ; any experiences at all ; good /bad

[Capt Popeye]

Yea well its some years now since we in UK had the Disabilities Discrimination act passed by Parliament ; might ask if anybody has either good or bad experiences with it ?

I am keen to search for Harbour Masters and Marinas , and River custodians that have actually made an effort to accomodate us ; I have had a few battles with the local Teign authorities plus Boat Yards over suitable accessability and access to boating , had rather limited sucess and too much hostile reactions along my way ; so thinking about my next battle with the Teign Authorities in the near future I am keen to be able to see what other HM and Authorities have done ;

Most hostile reaction to my requests were along the lines of , 'should you actually be boating ', and 'we cannot change just for you', so maybe I should concentrate my boating activities where consideration is already there in my limited future time ?

Any /All comments most welcome I can assure you !

I have spent time with Disability Sailing Groups etc , but they in my mind are NOT actually suited to Persons who want to mess about in boating in a Casual Way , as its all well organised and controlled , too controlled maybe ?

Thank you

 

[penfold]

There's a dinghy class specifically designed for disabled folk, a trimaran but the name of it escapes me. A club near me has a class of Sonars which have quite commodious cockpits which is good for the less mobile and relatively modest rigs which reduces sheet loads, although I don't know if they were designed specifically for that purpose. Have you tried the Jubilee Sailing Trust?

More generally it's shocking to me that pedestrian ferries subsidised by the public purse can be exempt from the DDA even today.

Edit to add; the trimaran is the Challenger class.

 

[newtothis]

Passenger shipping rather than boating but may be of interest....

"The Department for Transport is now welcoming bids for a £1 million grant to boost accessibility for ferries to the Isle of Wight and the Isles of Scilly.

From today, operators can pitch projects that will help elderly and disabled people travel with confidence on the vital transport links connecting them to the mainland. This funding was initially announced as part of the Government’s National Disability Strategy and reinforces its pledge to improve the network for everyone – no matter the mode of transport.

Bids can either be for equipment, such as wheelchairs or accessible ticket machines, or building works like ramp levelling or the installation of Changing Places toilets. All ideas will be considered, so long as they are geared towards improving accessibility.

Accessibility Minister Chris Heaton-Harris said:

“These ports provide vital connections to the islands of the United Kingdom and it is imperative that they are accessible to all.

“We look forward to hearing some innovative and life-changing ideas as we take another step towards creating a fully inclusive transport network.”

Ferries from the Isle of Wight and Isles of Scilly to the mainland provide vital connections for around 140,000 residents and are crucial for businesses and tourism. There is currently no expectation this funding will be repeated, so the Government is urging operators to come forward now to support this important initiative.

Bids received will be assessed on the number of passengers likely to benefit from the improvements and value for money. Applicants are asked to provide a supporting letter from local disability charities or individuals, as well as three quotes to ensure good value is being obtained.

The Government’s National Disability Strategy is already underway – with a nationwide audit of all train stations to drive up standards, urgent roll-out of tactile paving on platforms, grants to improve bus services and new laws to ensure proper support in taxis and private hire vehicles.

It follows the “It’s everyone’s journey” campaign, launched in 2020 to champion equal access across all forms of public transport and encourage people to be more considerate and supportive of others when using the transport network."

 

[bedouin]

There are a lot of different disabilities out there - what particular disability do you have in mind?

Obviously provision for the blind would be very different from that required for someone who was, say, dyslexic.

 

[Channel Sailor]

There is a business called wet wheels in the Solent that appears to visit a few ports. They have a power cat. It looks really good.

I have noticed that Yarmouth Harbour appear to have a facility designed for wheelchair access to boats at a pontoon. It seems to be an alongside berth with short distance access to a dedicated ramp and gate. I vaguely recall seeing the wet wheels power cat there. I think this power cat has a alongside side access gate and ramp.

Lymington Town Quay beths has a shower block with one “limited ability” shower room.

I would guess a largish modern wide transomed AWB yacht could modified or configured for safe access at least visitors in wheelchairs or limited mobility. I was in a port this year where such a yacht appeared to be asking for a finger berth for stern to mooring for this purpose. Later I did see someone in a hand push wheel chair trundle along the pontoon.

In Premier Gosport Marina I regularly see up and down the pontoon those mobility scooters. Also I have seen a boat in the marina with special steps on the pontoon so access to the deck level is more practical. This marina has separate a small toilet block with level access. I don’t recall if it has a level access shower room.

Of course wheel chair access is not the only facility needed for persons with limited ability Of some type or another, but these just happened to be something I noticed.

 

[burgundyben]

Royal Southern YC at Hamble has a pontoon and hoist specifically for helping less able folk to go boating.

 

[Capt Popeye]

There are a lot of different disabilities out there - what particular disability do you have in mind?

Obviously provision for the blind would be very different from that required for someone who was, say, dyslexic.

Hi there ; yes for sure , disabilities are but many forms ; mainly the disabilities that I have in mind are physical ones , loss of a limb , eyesight , strength , mental dexterity , similar to I suppose an Olympic Disability race ; I spent some time with the Dart Disability group , sailing /boating on the Dart ; they have a fleet of specialist Sailing Dingies , HANSA , a specially designed Boat with a substantial Drop Keel , weighing I recall , about 30 Kilo , using a shore /pontoon based crane to mount and demount the Drop Keel ; there are a few fleets scattered around our country ; The Hansa has a forward facing seat near the stern , Main and Jib , so minimum number of 'sheets' to handle ; tiller is a vertical short Pole placed midships , operated by a left and right motion ; they sail quite well , I understand that there are National Events even I gather International Races ;

The Disability that I am most concerned with are as a result of Age , Injury , Illness , etc where a person who might have enjoyed Boating in earlier years but as a result of Age and /or Disability find that the are obstructions in their way ; take for example , the Dinghy Racks that one finds near Launching Sites in Rivers and Harbours , my local Council provides them , on an Annual rental basis , but these Dinghy Racks are mainly Vertical Stored Racks , bloody impossible for most with either a Lost Limb or Physical impairments to get the Dinghy into a Vertical possition unaided ; so for most with a Disability they are beyond our use ; the vertical racks are also against our best interests , as most dinghys are about 8/9 ft in length so lack the necessary stability required with disabilities afloat to get off such a small dinghy into a larger Boat ;

Unfortunately I often witness that those who when they become aged are unnessarilly obstructed in their wish to follow their chosen pastime . Which I think is a pity , a great pity indeed .

I recall when in my youth , spent on the Medway at Rochester , there being a Lone Fella who still operated a Motor Tug Boat by himself , he was without arms , handling the Ropes and Boat Operation using his feet and toes , he was admired and used by us local Boaters and 'Medway Ports' when Berthing and Exiting Mud Berths , he I thought at the time was an example to us all , I still do look back in admiration plus amazement of his aquired skills

 

[bedouin]

Hi there ; yes for sure , disabilities are but many forms ; mainly the disabilities that I have in mind are physical ones , loss of a limb , eyesight , strength , mental dexterity , similar to I suppose an Olympic Disability race ; I spent some time with the Dart Disability group , sailing /boating on the Dart ; they have a fleet of specialist Sailing Dingies , HANSA , a specially designed Boat with a substantial Drop Keel , weighing I recall , about 30 Kilo , using a shore /pontoon based crane to mount and demount the Drop Keel ; there are a few fleets scattered around our country ; The Hansa has a forward facing seat near the stern , Main and Jib , so minimum number of 'sheets' to handle ; tiller is a vertical short Pole placed midships , operated by a left and right motion ; they sail quite well , I understand that there are National Events even I gather International Races ;

Indeed there are many - and the DDA applies to all. So it is not reasonable to expect all organisations to cater equally for all disabilities. For any particular disability you are likely to find specialist providers that cater for their particular needs. (Not sure about dyslexia though )

In other cases it is a matter of what is reasonable. In the case of the dinghy storage one can ask if they can provide alternative storage if one is unable to lift a dinghy to vertical but they can refuse if it is not feasible. But perhaps if handling the dinghy is too challenging then one should consider an alternative berth - either a walk-ashore pontoon or one with a ferry service.

I don't think there are many pastimes that don't get harder as we get older but most people find a way to overcome the challenges and I think we have to be realistic and match our expectations to our abilities.

 

[lustyd]

Obviously provision for the blind would be very different from that required for someone who was, say, dyslexic.

And those channel markers and nav lights are a nightmare for the colour blind!

To the OPs point though, aside from mixed ability washrooms I don't think I've seen a lot of changes made in any harbours. I've seen various mixed ability boating businesses around the Solent and Cornwall. Unfortunately I think that unless these things are baked into a plan from day one the cost is hard to justify to make changes with low numbers of users. Of course the user numbers can't grow without the facilities so it's kind of stalemate until someone with a stick comes along to beat them into action.

 

[crewman]

On a practical level, any marina with significant tidal range will have problems with pontoon access for those with a mobility problem at low tide. Lame or river based facilities have lesser problems. The specialist trimaran is called the Challenger, my local sailability group alse hse a modjfied Weta tri. There is also a specially designed motor boat "Wheelyboat" which is intended for use by wheelchair users.

 

[Wing Mark]

One of the dinghy clubs I've sailed at in recent years, it's often pretty much impossible to launch or recover on your own.
We get around that by working together.
Lots of racing clubs have some fairly ancient members with reduced capabilities, club members work together and help another as required.
I rate myself as fairly fit and able for a retired git, but I'm just as grateful for the help I get from other club members.
Likewise I'm always ready to pay that back.
The other week, I was standing in the surf holding my dinghy and a woman well into retirement fetched my trolley.

What you put in you get back?

You get a few sailors who expect everything to be right for them, but never put anything back.
People helping one another get stuff done.
What has the OP done for other sailors?

 

[Gary Fox]

The Island Trust in Mountbatten, Plymth, would be pleased to hear from you. Most of the people they take out have been unlucky in life one way or another, but a week or two being worked up into a team on a sollid wooden sailing boat makes them forget about it all, because sailing vesssels are a totally weird environment.
Sail Training is where it's at, to give people courage and optimism in their own inner potential.

 

[DJE]

On a practical level, any marina with significant tidal range will have problems with pontoon access for those with a mobility problem at low tide.

Roscoff Marina has a lift to the pontoons. A very clever bit of kit to cope with varying levels.

 

[Seastoke]

I have converted 2 of my boats for wheel chair access for son and daughter we have to board stern on , our Marina conwy installed a wet room when asked , on another note we went to see a show in London, and access in the city is poor , ie tube overland and dropped kerbs , moan over.

 

[Gary Fox]

I went out on an old wooden dinghy a few times in South Dock, Surrey Docks,London. I was taking out blind, but otherwise ok,, dinghy sailors, and I just had to put their hands on the various lines plus of course the tiller, and tell the name of that line, ie port jib sheet or whatever.
It was a learning experience for me, the blind crew kept talking , and thus navigating in confined waters by human sonar, their returning voices bounced off the dock walls and gave them a good 3D map of the location. Ther wind awareness is spot on.
On the other hand there is a large gaff cutter built in the W.Country, which has specialised in taking out so-called troublesome boys, Ritalin Rovers, that is a challenge.
Sail Training endeavours are the future, and will also receive all my charity donations. Forget the RNLI, either give to your local independent lifeboats, or to sail training charities. If you care about England's future.

 

[Gary Fox]

Hi there ; yes for sure , disabilities are but many forms ; mainly the disabilities that I have in mind are physical ones , loss of a limb , eyesight , strength , mental dexterity , similar to I suppose an Olympic Disability race ; I spent some time with the Dart Disability group , sailing /boating on the Dart ; they have a fleet of specialist Sailing Dingies , HANSA , a specially designed Boat with a substantial Drop Keel , weighing I recall , about 30 Kilo , using a shore /pontoon based crane to mount and demount the Drop Keel ; there are a few fleets scattered around our country ; The Hansa has a forward facing seat near the stern , Main and Jib , so minimum number of 'sheets' to handle ; tiller is a vertical short Pole placed midships , operated by a left and right motion ; they sail quite well , I understand that there are National Events even I gather International Races ;

The Disability that I am most concerned with are as a result of Age , Injury , Illness , etc where a person who might have enjoyed Boating in earlier years but as a result of Age and /or Disability find that the are obstructions in their way ; take for example , the Dinghy Racks that one finds near Launching Sites in Rivers and Harbours , my local Council provides them , on an Annual rental basis , but these Dinghy Racks are mainly Vertical Stored Racks , bloody impossible for most with either a Lost Limb or Physical impairments to get the Dinghy into a Vertical possition unaided ; so for most with a Disability they are beyond our use ; the vertical racks are also against our best interests , as most dinghys are about 8/9 ft in length so lack the necessary stability required with disabilities afloat to get off such a small dinghy into a larger Boat ;

Unfortunately I often witness that those who when they become aged are unnessarilly obstructed in their wish to follow their chosen pastime . Which I think is a pity , a great pity indeed .

I recall when in my youth , spent on the Medway at Rochester , there being a Lone Fella who still operated a Motor Tug Boat by himself , he was without arms , handling the Ropes and Boat Operation using his feet and toes , he was admired and used by us local Boaters and 'Medway Ports' when Berthing and Exiting Mud Berths , he I thought at the time was an example to us all , I still do look back in admiration plus amazement of his aquired skills

Cptn, I can vouch for the famous engineer with no arms but dextrous legs and prehensile toes (ie he could grip a heavy iron hammer with his toes) and all the old boys (eg born 50's -50's) involved with tugs etc the London River used to tell stories about him. He could lie on his back on the engine room sole plating, holding a spanner in each foot, and if you gave him a bottle of dark rum, he could JUGGLE them...

 

[Iliade]

Sussex Yacht Club has an active Sailability section and both Shoreham old and new clubhouses (were) are well adapted with hoist, ramps, lifts and facilities. I don't think that the Southwick facilities are adapted, but I haven't been onto the new pontoons yet.

Sailability

 

[oz-1]

Yea well its some years now since we in UK had the Disabilities Discrimination act passed by Parliament ; might ask if anybody has either good or bad experiences with it ?

I am keen to search for Harbour Masters and Marinas , and River custodians that have actually made an effort to accomodate us ; I have had a few battles with the local Teign authorities plus Boat Yards over suitable accessability and access to boating , had rather limited sucess and too much hostile reactions along my way ; so thinking about my next battle with the Teign Authorities in the near future I am keen to be able to see what other HM and Authorities have done ;

Most hostile reaction to my requests were along the lines of , 'should you actually be boating ', and 'we cannot change just for you', so maybe I should concentrate my boating activities where consideration is already there in my limited future time ?

Any /All comments most welcome I can assure you !

I have spent time with Disability Sailing Groups etc , but they in my mind are NOT actually suited to Persons who want to mess about in boating in a Casual Way , as its all well organised and controlled , too controlled maybe ?

Thank you

Yea well its some years now since we in UK had the Disabilities Discrimination act passed by Parliament ; might ask if anybody has either good or bad experiences with it ?

I am keen to search for Harbour Masters and Marinas , and River custodians that have actually made an effort to accomodate us ; I have had a few battles with the local Teign authorities plus Boat Yards over suitable accessability and access to boating , had rather limited sucess and too much hostile reactions along my way ; so thinking about my next battle with the Teign Authorities in the near future I am keen to be able to see what other HM and Authorities have done ;

Most hostile reaction to my requests were along the lines of , 'should you actually be boating ', and 'we cannot change just for you', so maybe I should concentrate my boating activities where consideration is already there in my limited future time ?

Any /All comments most welcome I can assure you !

I have spent time with Disability Sailing Groups etc , but they in my mind are NOT actually suited to Persons who want to mess about in boating in a Casual Way , as its all well organised and controlled , too controlled maybe ?

Thank you

Hi Capt Popeye, here in Torquay there are 2 big Hanse sail boats that are used by people who are less abled. There is also a hoist on the pontoon beside one of the boats. The harbour master and all the harbour staff are always friendly and willing to give a hand, if asked. Come over and check it out. Best regards, Oz.

 

[AntarcticPilot]

I wonder how many marinas would fare if someone challenged access to the harbourmaster's office? In several cases I can think of, access is via a flight of steps; totally inaccessible to a wheelchair user. Of course, there are good reasons why harbourmasters are on the upper story (visibility of the harbour entrance), but if they provide facilities (e.g. access to electricity, bill payment etc.), they either need to be certain they can provide those facilities without people going to the office, or they need to provide a lift. Of course, they also have obligations if they employ a disabled person - and they are not allowed to discriminate against a disabled person unless the nature of their disability disqualifies them from the job. So, for example, a harbour master who was a wheelchair user is not unthinkable!