Pros and cons of motor sailers

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SolentBoat

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I'm considering buying a new boat. In particular, I'm interested in buying something both bigger and more seaworthy than my current 29 foot marina-hopper AWB.

SWMBO has laid eyes on various motor sailers (Fisher, Cromarty 36 etc) and rather likes their spaciousness and apparent robustness.

I'm not a sailing purist and have no objection to a less than thoroughbred sailing machine but I would rather have a boat that sails reasonably.

How do these things measure up?
 
my understanding (and not of the particular models you state) is that MS's are bad sailing craft with oversized engines. You will find it a struggle to make good progress to windward without the engine. They will sail reaches & downwind fine though. Fuel consumption is generally more than the equivalent AWB because they weigh more and have bigger engines ...
Anything wrong with a MS ?? not in general ... !!
(All the above - IMHO)
 
One observation made about many motor-sailers is that they often have very limited cockpit space - or indeed no "cockpit" at all. Outside steering can be a bit limiting, either due to poor visibility past the deckhouse, or because of awkward elevated steering positions. However, in the typical UK climate, inside steering has a certain appeal!
 
As I understand it, and I claim no expertise, Fisher, Cromarty, Nauticat 33 series etc are genuine motorsailers. with hulls built & shaped for seakeeping rather than sailing performance. Most have inside helming positions.

When you're bashing back from Cherbourg into the teeth of a rainy 6-7, if you'd rather be inside in the dry with the engine running and the heater on than out in the rain under sail, you may well find one of these will suit.

OTOH, if you like a light boat that's responsive to every zephyr of breeze, get something else.

There are those who describe any boat with a deck saloon or dog house and a decent engine a motorsailer. Perhaps they're right, but I understand the Nauticat 32 series and more recent Southerlies go quite nicely under canvas, while having the requisite home comforts for when the British climate does what it does best.

If I had the budget (probability=~0 :(), I could be tempted by the Southerlies as I like the ability to drive up a beach like a catamaran, drive home in the warm & dry when it's pi$$ing down and still clock up a decent average speed under sail.
 
motor sailers

Solentboy, are you in or near the Solent? If so come round to Ashlett Creek and
I'll show you mine. It's a Danish LM 30, actually much the same size as a Moody 31.
I changed from a Snapdragon 747 as we are both rather tall so wanted head room
in the new boat. When I made a list of desirable qualities, top of the list was
' not a motor sailer' ! Then someone in the club showed us their LM28 and then we
were looking at boats in Ocean Quay and were persuaded without much difficulty
to look at a couple of LM30s. We were impressed and were also shown the group test
report from one of the Yachting mags. They described the LM as the best boat
by far, in the whole test and said it sailed better than many sail boats and they
suggested it should be called a 50/50 rather than a motor sailer.
We have sailed across the Channel; down to the Isles of Scilly and round
Ouesant to the Isle de Glenan. We even towed a sail boat through the
Raz de Sein to Loctudy. Our engine is a modest 24 hp and this years addition
to the sail wardrobe has been a Cruising genoa with snuffer so we used
the same amount of engine crossing to the Channel Isles
as the Moody 31 we were accompanying. Both of us with twin keels.
We have a cockpit (and built-in table) which seats 6, we have an inside steering
position which seats 2, the chart table is also upstairs as is the galley
so no one need get sea sick.
We always arrive in much better condition than the crews in AWBs when the
weather is less than perfect.
 
SolentBoat said:
I'm considering buying a new boat. In particular, I'm interested in buying something both bigger and more seaworthy than my current 29 foot marina-hopper AWB.

SWMBO has laid eyes on various motor sailers (Fisher, Cromarty 36 etc) and rather likes their spaciousness and apparent robustness.

I'm not a sailing purist and have no objection to a less than thoroughbred sailing machine but I would rather have a boat that sails reasonably.

How do these things measure up?
Click to expand...

I have limited sailing experience, and only three years boat ownership (Nauticat 35), so my remarks should be taken with these limitations in mind.

However, with her 11m length x 3.47 beam the Nauticat 35 is both spacious and robust. With two helm postions, the inner 'cockpit' space is huge; completely sheltered but with good visibility - except for an arc of about 30 degrees aft. On passage that means doing a meerkat impersonation to check aft.

The outside helm, gives complete all round visibility, but since you are quite high above the water line it takes a bit of getting used to when parking - as well as making for considerable windage.

With a 7.5t displacement, and driven by a VP 2003T engine (fingers crossed for the gearbox drive spline!), she is no gas guzzler. In the Med we have a sail/motor ratio of roughly 1:3 and over many months we average 2l/h fuel consumption.

As others have pointed out, MS are no racing machines, especially to windward. The truth is they need more puff to deliver sailing performance (plus a skipper more accomplished than myself), but with 20kts+ of wind they are no slouches. The Nauticat is also a comfortable ride when beating.

One general downside of quality MS is their purchase price of course; but you pays your money and takes your choice. SWMBO and I are no spring chickens and in terms of sailing comfort, boat handling, and 'at anchor' living accomodation, our 35 gives us what we want.
 
I am also on the lookout for my next cruiser and am inclined towards a motor sailer.
My last boat was a Colvic Atlanta, heavy 32' ketch with a wheelhouse.
The wheel house was admitably a pain, getting out on deck was pain but the comfort in bad weather made it worth it. ( fatigue mst be less if your comfortable?)
A priority for me is still protected steering, we will probably go for a centre cockpit boat with a solid half wheel house. Neptunian 34 Meridian 31 and others come to mind.
The Seadog has a reputation as a solid comfortable motor sailer but carries a decent spread of canvas and ( I'm told sails well)
Siting the wheel forward for shelter has the draw back that you have to screw your neck around to check trim all the time ( decent roof lights essential!)
Why do all you rufty tufty sailers invest in these expensive sprayhoods?
 
Perhaps you could add to your list to view, the Moody Eclipse 33, and the 38(better of the two) and the Southerly range.
I have sailed both versions of the Moody Eclipse, and their larger sister the 43. They may appear to be motor-sailers but have a real turn of speed under the in- mast mainsail and furling genoa. The 33 matched a Sigma 33 for several miles without effort, so is no slouch. All the appointments below are SWMBO's ideal, and the dual sailing/or motoring steering positions are pretty good, just don't get one with smoked glass windows. Manoeuverability is excellent, and the engines are usually the 28 and 43HP Volvo.

I agree regarding the LM's also excellent choices.

ianat182
 
pcatterall said:
I am also on the lookout for my next cruiser and am inclined towards a motor sailer.
My last boat was a Colvic Atlanta, heavy 32' ketch with a wheelhouse.
Click to expand...

Isn't this your old boat that was up on eBay but it didn't sell?? Appears to have grown 2ft!
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=120605619217&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT

I have been interested in Colvic Atlantas for some time and hope to get one in a couple of years. I was inclined towards the enclosed wheelhouse, like your old boat, but I now fancy the Colvic Atlanta 31/32. There is a good example here.
http://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1980/Colvic-Atlanta-32-2117105/Crosshaven,-Cork/Ireland

This one gets the benefit of a wheelhouse when the weather is bad, but an outside steering position when the weather is good.

EDIT. That boat doesn't have the outside steering position and the following one doesn't either. Previous ones I have seen did have.I do like the bilge plates on this one (which are on most of them) as I do like to be able to sit on the bottom without any worries.
http://www.boatshed.com/colvic_atlanta_32-boat-106066.html

Further Edit.
Found one (called a 31) with the dual steering but no bilge plates.
http://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1980/Colvic-Atlanta-2078147/Holyhead,-Anglesey/United-Kingdom
 
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Stemar said:
If I had the budget (probability=~0 :(), I could be tempted by the Southerlies as I like the ability to drive up a beach like a catamaran, drive home in the warm & dry when it's pi$$ing down and still clock up a decent average speed under sail.
Click to expand...

I wouldnt consider the smaller southerlies as motor sailers at all. they dont have a big enough engine for one thing, and I'm far from sure how practical they would be to handle from down below. they seem to be designed to sail well.
 
Have you considered a catamaran ? My 10m Snowgoose for example gives acres of space and stability as well as safety - there is no record of a Snowgoose sinking or capsizing. We've sailed in a full gale and enormous waves and under ideal conditions managed 13 knots. Plus she's built like a battleship - in an encounter with a concrete boat she emerged without a scratch whereas the other was holed.
 
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My sailing partner and I changed from a westerly griffin, which we liked very much, to Coaster 33 [very similar to but much better boat than the Neptunian]. We did this to extend our sailing life into our old age. The decision being made after a cold, wet crossing to Holland. It was a very good change. She sailed well enough, was good under engine and you could have the cockpit protected but pretty well open if you wished, or completely enclosed if it was cold or wet. And it was a very comfortable boat to live in.

I finally swapped to a Fisher 25 when my sailing partner decided to give up completely and I found the Coaster a bit much to manage single handed [two tin hips didn't help getting out from the cockpit]. This goes well in smooth seas, but the big blunt bow stops her in large head seas.

All these boats seem to be round bilge, long keeled. Very safe in bad weather, but very inclined to roll and so need lots of hand grab rails around the place.
 
Yes that was my old boat on ebay, I think it was sold ( off ebay). Unlike the ones you indicate she had real wheelhouse with an full aftercabin. A great boat with massive accomodation for a 32' .
The wheel house was too deep for me, the decks were teak and I seemed to spend more time maintaining them than anything else. The last owner just painted them over which on reflection I should have done!!
 
I changed for a Hunter 26 to a old more or less one off MS (31 foot). No cockpit but a big aft deck for sitting out on.
So much more internal space and well protected ideal for the UK weather. Suits me down to the ground.
 
My parents have a Jeanneau Espace 1000 (10.4m), they are comfortable to live on in British weather. There is a choice of 2 cabins and the saloon to sleep in.
Their's has a tiller outside and a wheel inside to steer. You can sail from inside but they don't, motoring only for them.
It's a 50Hp engine with a fixed 3 blade prop.
I think it sails Ok but I have a Centaur. The Espace tacks through 100° to 110° but the rig isn't tuned at all and the sails are the 1982 originals! It's great if you go where the wind is going which is what we should be doing anyway.
The Espace 1100 is a bit longer and has an aft cabin.
They look a bit more like a sailing boat than a Fisher, in my eyes.
 
Neptunian

I have a neptunian 33, She is a great sea boat (been in some horid weather in her), but she has a good sailing pedigree and sails well. (I am selling her as I need to go bigger) http://www.rightboat.com/Neptunian-33/boat-12112646/

This arrangement is a good compromise with an aft deck area which can be used as cockpit area, and a covered dog house which has a cover so you can lock your self in if horrid.
 
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