Propane, can I use the cylinders in a horizontal position

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Jassira

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Is there any reason why a propane or butane cylinder can't be used in the horizontal position. I have seen them fitted horizontally on the back of fork lift trucks but other wise they seem to be used upright, who would I ask for a definite answer
 
The ones used on fork lift trucks are designed to be used horizontally with an internal tube extending to the high point. Gas is drawn off from the void above the liquid. By lying a conventional bottle on its side you will draw off liquid, which will burn with extremely large flames.
 
Jassira said:
Is there any reason why a propane or butane cylinder can't be used in the horizontal position. I have seen them fitted horizontally on the back of fork lift trucks but other wise they seem to be used upright, who would I ask for a definite answer
Click to expand...

Not a normal cylinder - the shaped ones used on FLTs are specially modified.
 
vyv_cox said:
The ones used on fork lift trucks are designed to be used horizontally with an internal tube extending to the high point. Gas is drawn off from the void above the liquid. By lying a conventional bottle on its side you will draw off liquid, which will burn with extremely large flames.
Click to expand...

I am intrigued by that. Those I have seen in adjacent companies' fork lifts have no obvious constraints on the rotational orientation of the cylinders. Is there a gravity seeking mechanism inside?

I always assumed that the output was in liquid form and gasification took place in the vehicles fuel system.
 
Graham_Wright said:
I am intrigued by that. Those I have seen in adjacent companies' fork lifts have no obvious constraints on the rotational orientation of the cylinders. Is there a gravity seeking mechanism inside?

I always assumed that the output was in liquid form and gasification took place in the vehicles fuel system.
Click to expand...
what would happen once the cylinder was 1/2 full
 
Graham_Wright said:
I am intrigued by that. Those I have seen in adjacent companies' fork lifts have no obvious constraints on the rotational orientation of the cylinders. Is there a gravity seeking mechanism inside?

I always assumed that the output was in liquid form and gasification took place in the vehicles fuel system.
Click to expand...

There is a locating hole on the bottle that only allows it to be positioned correctly. Info here http://fork-truck.org.uk/uploads/files/IyUkBLPG_Guide_to_Safe_Refuelling.pdf
 
Graham_Wright said:
I am intrigued by that. Those I have seen in adjacent companies' fork lifts have no obvious constraints on the rotational orientation of the cylinders. Is there a gravity seeking mechanism inside?

I always assumed that the output was in liquid form and gasification took place in the vehicles fuel system.
Click to expand...

Researching further, it looks like you are correct. Correct orientation of the bottle is not to ensure that gas is drawn off the top, but liquid is drawn off the bottom until the bottle is empty. http://www.propane101.com/forkliftcylindermounting.htm

We live and learn!
 
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The horizontal ones are certainly available. They usually have feet so they are mounted correctly. The ones I have seen look very much like a standard cylinder .....

I don't sail in the UK anymore so I don't know if you have any gas filling stations rather than bottle swaps .... Obviously you might have trouble swapping them.
 
DON'T use normal cylinders on their side. Either butane or propane. Regardless of make or brand.

As stated, your system is designed to withdraw the gas off the top, not liquid.

FLT cylinders are designed for liquid withdrawal, and have a dip tube to enable that. They have a marking on the base to indicate which way up.

Do not think you can just use a FLT cylinder on its side but with a normal regulator.

End of.
 
Interesting point raised recently on another thread about whether it is safe to use bottled gas at sea because the bottle is likely to being shook up and liquid could be thrown by the boat's motion at the outlet valve causing liquid gas in the Regulator. We do use gas at sea and haven't noticed a problem as yet.
 
Companies like Gasit make refillable horizontal gas out tanks for fitting on caravans and motorhomes. Theyeven have an 80% fill cut of when correctly positioned.
 
Trundlebug said:
DON'T use normal cylinders on their side. Either butane or propane. Regardless of make or brand.

As stated, your system is designed to withdraw the gas off the top, not liquid.

FLT cylinders are designed for liquid withdrawal, and have a dip tube to enable that. They have a marking on the base to indicate which way up.

Do not think you can just use a FLT cylinder on its side but with a normal regulator.

End of.
Click to expand...

The reason for the liquid draw off is that the gas flow would be limited by the evaporation of the gas from liquid, the cylinder would freeze and flow would cease, the flow is far higher than a cooker burner. The evaporator powered by the engine cooling system generates the gas.
 
savageseadog said:
The reason for the liquid draw off is that the gas flow would be limited by the evaporation of the gas from liquid, the cylinder would freeze and flow would cease, the flow is far higher than a cooker burner. The evaporator powered by the engine cooling system generates the gas.
Click to expand...

Yes you're quite right.
I wanted to convey a clear, unambiguous message to anyone considering doing anything unconventional, or imaginative with LPG cylinders.
Adding a full explanation would have detracted from that message.

One aspect that hasn't been mentioned is the burst plug fitted to cylinders.
The burst plug is designed to relieve pressure from the cylinder in the event of excess pressure (e.g. in a fire) but crucially it is designed to relieve GAS rather than LIQUID which can't flow as quickly through the hole.

If cylinders are not stored correctly, and the burst plug is submersed in liquid, serious overpressure can result and the cylinder can hydraulically fail catastrophically and without warning.
At least if stored correctly there is some prior warning, although the end result is a BLEVE, (boiling liquid expanding vapour explosion) which really isn't pleasant.

See here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UM0jtD_OWLU

Mess around with it at your peril.
 
Jassira said:
Is there any reason why a propane or butane cylinder can't be used in the horizontal position.
Click to expand...

It might have been an idea for the first line of your post not to ask the exact opposite question to the title.
Then you'd know whether people were answering yes (you can) or yes (there is a good reason not to) :D

My answer is don't do it!
 
Trundlebug said:
If cylinders are not stored correctly, and the burst plug is submersed in liquid, serious overpressure can result and the cylinder can hydraulically fail catastrophically and without warning.

Mess around with it at your peril.
Click to expand...

That is interesting as here you talked about position of the stored bottle (as opposed to the bottle position when connected to the gas line and in use) and it seems vertical orientation when stored is equally as important? I store horizontally but use vertically, it seems I am wrong to store horizontally?

Rob
 
LPG cylinders must be both stored, transported and used vertically.

There is guidance from the BCGA (British Compressed Gases Association) which is the trade body representing all the industrial and LPG gases companies, however the guidance isn't free.

I do have an old training video conveying this message, regarding some people having a barbecue and transporting the cylinder home in their car - but that's not much use to you on a forum I'm afraid!

It's no problem at sea or going over waves etc, the sploshing around isn't really an issue as long as the cylinder is always kept nominally upright.
But storage on its side is a no no I'm afraid.

It's Also very important to keep cylinders out of direct sunlight.
The liquid expands with higher temperature and if a full cylinder exceeds 50 degrees IIRC it will burst hydraulically.
That's why they're filled to 80%, to leave some ullage in the top to allow for expansion. As with everything, there are still limits.
 
Trundlebug said:
LPG cylinders must be both stored, transported and used vertically.

There is guidance from the BCGA (British Compressed Gases Association) which is the trade body representing all the industrial and LPG gases companies, however the guidance isn't free.

I do have an old training video conveying this message, regarding some people having a barbecue and transporting the cylinder home in their car - but that's not much use to you on a forum I'm afraid!

It's no problem at sea or going over waves etc, the sploshing around isn't really an issue as long as the cylinder is always kept nominally upright.
But storage on its side is a no no I'm afraid.

It's Also very important to keep cylinders out of direct sunlight.
The liquid expands with higher temperature and if a full cylinder exceeds 50 degrees IIRC it will burst hydraulically.
That's why they're filled to 80%, to leave some ullage in the top to allow for expansion. As with everything, there are still limits.
Click to expand...

So there you are on a building site in the summer with 2 x 104Lb bottles running a asphalt pot. i have never ever seen bottles covered to protect then from the sun :confused:
 
Interesting - that new Lehr outboard seems to have the propane pretty horizontal - but it is one of the disposable ones.
"It's Also very important to keep cylinders out of direct sunlight.
The liquid expands with higher temperature and if a full cylinder exceeds 50 degrees IIRC it will burst hydraulically."

Not sure how that works either with the Lehr.
 
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