Proof of VAT status in Croatia

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WE are a UK registered sailing yacht visiting Croatia for a few months and have just been refused by Kastela marina a lift out for August which was pre-arranged, because they will not accept our sales invoice as proof of having paid VAT. Having spoken to the VAT help line it is apparent that this is the only document supplied in the UK. The Dutch and a few other countries in the EU provide a certificate as proof but not the UK. When pointing this out to the marina office the answer is 'sorry but these are our instructions from the government.' It will only take one customs official with the same instructions to start demanding that we pay it again in Croatia. Anyone had the same problem?
 
And I was called paranoiac when I wrote here that I intended giving Croatia a miss this EU-accession year with my cruising plans because, despite my Part I registration and deemed VAT-paid status based on pre-1985 construction, I have no documentary proof of my yacht being in the EU in 1992 prior to my purchase of it, the other VAT exempt requirement.

All I can suggest is that you cross the Adriatic to Italy where they are infinitely more relaxed about these things and where I could never imagine such an absurd attitude prevailing despite Brussels trying to insist on their conformance to VAT controls of EU-registered yachts.
 
You are correct in that the invoice is sufficient. You have fallen foul of officials learning about a new regime. It is a very sensitive subject in Croatia. They are having to deal with all sorts of VAT issues arising from their entry into the EU. They will be issuing certificates because there are many boats with uncertain pasts which will be seeking exemption under the accession rules. So to them the certificate is a given. However HMRC are very clear that legally certificates have no standing and the only acceptable evidence is a commercial invoice and any issue are the responsibility of the state where the transaction took place. Other countries also issue certificates based on production of alternative evidence and sometimes it is because (as in Croatia) the evidence is required for registration of the boat.

Pointless trying to argue with the local officials, but worth letting the RYA know of your problem. If enough people experience problems they may try and put pressure on the authorities. In the meantime as Barnacle says, probably best to avoid Croatia in these turbulent times.
 
Thankyou both for those remarks, I have come to the same conclusion and shall be in Corfu before 1 July. Shame about the tourist tax etc that I paid in Cavtat but less expensive than 25% of my boat value.
 
We're currently in Montenegro and are planning to visit Croatia for a couple of months. Our boat was built in 1971 and is VAT exempt as it was in the EU prior to and during 1993. I have a bill of sale between two private individuals in the UK (1994).

What worries me is that this state of affairs might be a tad too esoteric for Croatian customs and they might start demanding VAT.

I did find a French Douanes document hidden away in the files, dated 1985, stating that the boat

'a ete francise a mon bureau, le 23 Mai 1978, sous le numero 5455/2310.t.

Ce bateau a ete normalment dedouane a l'importation en France, le 16 Juin 1976, selon document modele C1 numero 716/Le Legue'

Le taux de la T.V.A. qui a ete percue a cette occasion est de 20%'

Will that do it?

(Sorry - couldn't be bothered to try and put in all the accents)
 
That French document looks like a (deemed) VAT-paid declaration and if it identifies your boat you could be half-way to satisfying the Croatian official examining your case.

All you need is another piece of paper that proves your boat was in the EU in December 1992 - before you bought it ... ?
 
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I'd be very interested in other people's experience of this over the summer - both good and bad. We are based in Montenegro so pop up to Croatia a lot and were planning to pick up friends in Cavtat in September. However, we also fall into the VAT-exempt category - ie. built 1983 and in EU waters in 1992 (I scrabbled around last night to find the very old log book from previous owners which has Spanish stamps all over it from 1992 so hope this is enough).

We don't have anything other than this to prove our eligibility however. And having dealt with the authorities here for several years, I know how keen they are see signed and stamped proof of every tiny thing. So this is all a bit worrying as I don't think what we have would be enough for them. Esp. as it in in Spanish!

Any experiences folk have this summer would be good to hear - and if anyone knows of how we can get some kind of certification to prove our VAT status, that would be very useful too.

PS. Hi Birvidik - we were your cat's worst enemy in Herceg Novi last weekend!
 
Is there an opportunity for photoshop here to satisfy Croatia and other on VAT paid status? Perhaps if someone had a copy of what a Dutch certificate looks like, a copy could be made- for legitimate purposes only.
 
beormakate said:
Any experiences folk have this summer would be good to hear - and if anyone knows of how we can get some kind of certification to prove our VAT status, that would be very useful too.
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Unlikely there is ever any way of getting proof - if indeed VAT has been paid at all on a 1983 boat as it depends on where the boat was first sold. The main proof is the original invoice from the seller (builder or dealer) to the first private owner, or customs receipt if the boat was privately imported.

The 1992 date is also not fixed - the actual key date is the date the state acceded to the EU which for most is 1992 and the exemption applies to all boats in that country 8 years previous - so 1986 is the cut off date for exemption. Other countries were later so their cut off dates will be the date they joined less 8 years - so in the case of Croatia it will be 2013 and 2005.

Some countries did issue certificates, but they are country specific, often because having such evidence is necessary for registration. However, such certification has no legal basis because a boat can "lose" its VAT paid or exemption if it leaves the EU for any period, particularly if it changes ownership outside the EU. So having your boat in Montenegro makes it potentially liable for VAT when you enter the EU - with or without a previous invoice or certificate. The age itself and where it was in 1992 is technically irrelevant.

If you do want to try and get a certificate, you would have to get it in Spain if that is where it was in 1992. Spain does issue certificates (or did at the time), but whether they will issue them now I'm not sure. However, as I say if the boat has been outside the EU since then any EU state can require you to pay VAT to use the boat legally in the EU, unless you are non EU resident and can apply for temporary importation. This would allow you to use the boat but not sell it. If you did want to sell it in the EU it may well also need to meet the RCD unless it was built in the EEA.

Sorry to sound negative, but based on what you have said it is perhaps not a good idea to take your boat into Croatia.
 
Tranona said:
a boat can "lose" its VAT paid or exemption if it leaves the EU for any period, particularly if it changes ownership outside the EU. So having your boat in Montenegro makes it potentially liable for VAT when you enter the EU - with or without a previous invoice or certificate. The age itself and where it was in 1992 is technically irrelevant.
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I think you know this stuff better than I do, but wouldn't the fact that the boat is now outside the EU make it automatically (not just "potentially") liable for VAT on re-entry? The only exception being if it was exported by the same people who re-import it, within three years, and hasn't had major work done which would increase its value? That's my understanding from reading the HMRC "boats leaving the EU" blurb in preparation for a brief trip to the Channel Islands.

Pete
 
prv said:
I think you know this stuff better than I do, but wouldn't the fact that the boat is now outside the EU make it automatically (not just "potentially") liable for VAT on re-entry? The only exception being if it was exported by the same people who re-import it, within three years, and hasn't had major work done which would increase its value? That's my understanding from reading the HMRC "boats leaving the EU" blurb in preparation for a brief trip to the Channel Islands.

Pete
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Thought that is what I said in the last full paragraph. You need to know the full background of the boat before you can make an informed opinion - but yes it is a possibility. Hence the advice to keep clear of Croatia.
 
We are in Croatia, i just had a look through the book and we have an

HM REVENUE & CUSTOMS -DEMAND TO PAY VALUE ADDED TAX form

With a nice big red stamp saying "HM REVENUE & CUSTOMS -NATIONAL UNIT FOR PERSONAL TRANSPORT PAID ptu 1/4 + other stamps too

Sales receipts are iffy at best, VAT was already paid before so you will need (I believe) the original VAT import paper work or what ever sales receipt the yard gave the owner when he bought it.
 
Jamesuk said:
We are in Croatia, i just had a look through the book and we have an

HM REVENUE & CUSTOMS -DEMAND TO PAY VALUE ADDED TAX form

With a nice big red stamp saying "HM REVENUE & CUSTOMS -NATIONAL UNIT FOR PERSONAL TRANSPORT PAID ptu 1/4 + other stamps too

Sales receipts are iffy at best, VAT was already paid before so you will need (I believe) the original VAT import paper work or what ever sales receipt the yard gave the owner when he bought it.
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That sounds like a privately imported boat where VAT was paid direct to customs. There should also be a receipt to show that it has been paid and the only copy is the one that gores to the person who paid it.

You do not get that if the boat is purchased from a builder or dealer in the UK. You get a commercial invoice on the sellers headed paper showing the amount paid and the VAT element together with his VAT number. That is the only evidence acceptable for VAT payment for that kind of transaction.
 
beormakate said:
I'd be very interested in other people's experience of this over the summer - both good and bad. We are based in Montenegro so pop up to Croatia a lot and were planning to pick up friends in Cavtat in September.
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FWIW we are based in Croatia and we've just come back from a week's cruising there. We have paid the 5% VAT amount in Croatia recently and have a customs declaration to prove it. I know it's early days yet but nobody seems remotely bothered about VAT status and we were never challenged in any marina we visited. In fact we weren't even asked for the crew list document either which is one PITA that I definitely hope goes away for good in Croatia. I spoke to some locals there and everybody is saying that the Croatian govt appears to be making it up as they go along which is either a good thing or a bad thing depending on your point of view. It seems that officials have no idea how to act so for the moment they don't seem to be doing anything
If you want to visit Croatia and are concerned about your VAT status, it would be a good idea to PM Maritimus who posts on this forum. He handled my VAT payment very efficiently and seems to know as much as anyone about the latest situation regarding VAT status in Croatia
 
Thanks for people's input on this. I guess the big thing here is "the law" and "interpretation of the law" - and who enforces what. From what I can see, the only country that enforces the 3 year rule is Germany! Anyhow....back to Croatia.....

It would be very useful if folks who visit Croatia this year contribute to this thread with their experiences of whether and how VAT status is being checked in Croatia - how the authorities are dealing with it on the ground etc etc - and any other issues that arise upon check-in/out in Croatia - particularly for "deemed VAT paid" boats.

Thanks.
 
beormakate said:
It would be very useful if folks who visit Croatia this year contribute to this thread with their experiences of whether and how VAT status is being checked in Croatia - how the authorities are dealing with it on the ground etc etc - and any other issues that arise upon check-in/out in Croatia - particularly for "deemed VAT paid" boats.
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Not just from the VAT handling; it would be interesting to hear how they are managing the vignette situation. It has been published that: "for EU-registered yachts, the cruising permit will be abolished from 1 January 2014." So what would I pay with my just-expired, twelve-month, sailing permit vignette from last year? To date, only a calendar 12-month payment possibility existed (even if on a one-week visit), so would I be charged the standard 12-month charge for what would effectively be a 6-month period?

We can assume the light dues, chart fee etc., plus the Sejourn tax will be imposed on entry but halving the vignette fee would be welcome.
 
Barnac1e said:
Not just from the VAT handling; it would be interesting to hear how they are managing the vignette situation. It has been published that: "for EU-registered yachts, the cruising permit will be abolished from 1 January 2014." So what would I pay with my just-expired, twelve-month, sailing permit vignette from last year? To date, only a calendar 12-month payment possibility existed (even if on a one-week visit), so would I be charged the standard 12-month charge for what would effectively be a 6-month period?

We can assume the light dues, chart fee etc., plus the Sejourn tax will be imposed on entry but halving the vignette fee would be welcome.
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I thought the same when I bought my vignette in May. In fact I pointed out to the harbourmaster in Novigrad that it was grossly unfair to be selling 12 month vignettes in the current situation but he wasn't interested. I didn't have a choice so I bought it but you're right, it's a blatant rip off
 
Barnac1e said:
Well Mike, I didn't quite say that, even if the implication was there, but as my previous posts about the Balkan Bandits are on record I may as well keep in character and agree with you. :D
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Mmm, I'm now starting to agree with you. You know how there are many restaurants in Croatia with their own dock or mooring buoys and normally you pay nothing for staying the night provided you eat in the restaurant? For me, this is one of the delights of Croatia. Last time we were on our boat 2 weeks ago, we decided to visit Pipo's restaurant in Uvala Luka on Brac. We picked up one of the restaurant mooring buoys in the late afternoon and much to my surprise, somebody came and charged us 300kn, despite me promising to eat in Pipos that night. In the early evening, the wind got up and the buoy became uncomfortable so we decided to move to Pipos dock. Again to my surprise they charged us 500kn for that; when I pointed out that we'd already paid 300kn for the buoy, they reduced the charge to 400kn. So we'd spent 700kn at Pipos already without even eating there. Then later we ate in the restaurant and my wife and I had a seabass between us which was priced at 400kn/kg (which is already much too expensive). When the bill came, they charged us for a 2kg fish when there's no way the fish was much more than 1kg. So, all in all, our total bill for staying and eating at Pipos was over 2000kn. So, yes, Balkan Bandits do exist and one of them is running Pipos restaurant on Brac:mad:
In fairness, a couple of days later we picked up another buoy in Lucica also on Brac. Although we were charged 300kn for the buoy, we ate that night at a new restaurant there called Barba Luka (or similar, its the restaurant to the left of the other 2) and the meal there including sea bass was absolutely superb and half the price of Pipos so not all Balkans are bandits:)
 
There's good and bad everywhere - even Croatia.

I am currently in my home Italian marina and thought to have lunch out today while shopping for provisions. Plenty on here go on about Italian restaurant prices but I went to a place I often frequent in Pertegarda and had the lunch menu : - a cold entrée of rice and artichoke salad full of black olives and other delicacies - a truly superb piece of merluza (cod family) grilled in a tomato and basil sauce with diced baked potato - I passed on the desert - full bottles of wine and water, plus coffee included ... all for €10.

Sorry to the OP for Fred Drift.
 
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