Profurl In-Boom Mainsal Furling

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... have you considered keeping slab reefing but rearranging the system so that everything works from the cockpit?

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I need a new mainsail anyway and have to admit that the infinitely variable reefing advantage of roller reefing attracts me. I also fear ending up with a veritable cat's cradle of lines.

My greatest current reefing problem is getting the cringle eye on the luff onto the boom hook, working inside the lazy bag. I would have to convert to single line reefing - leach and luff line combined. I have been seared by the single-handed struggles I've had this year in some seriously strong winds. Nah, to hell with the expense, I'll cash in some of those depreciating financial assets before the bank goes under.
 
I find it strange so many are recommending in-boom reefing when in the real world such systems are outnumbered 50 or 100 to 1 by in-mast reefing.

If you fit a profurl boom you will never get caught out with too much sail area again. The reason is that the system is ugly and will disfigure your yacht so much you will not want to use it again. There is a yacht near me in my marina with an in-boom reefing system and it is the ugliest boat in a 300 berth marina. Note that the brochure photos at the link you quote do not show a full side-on profile of a fitted system.

I am a little perplexed as to why a sail maker would recommend a profurl boom system for the small mainsail on the HR 94, I doubt the sail is more than 180 sq ft.

So given your 5.2 ton displacement I suggest you get a basic dacron cross cut mainsail with a fairly light cloth for easy hoisting and one deep slab reef at around a 2nd reef position. Rig independent reefing pennant lines so you can pull down the slab from the cockpit.

With my suggestion you will be able to reduce you sail plan to say 90 sq ft main + 50 sq ft pocket jib. With 140 sq ft of sail driving a 5.2 ton displacement your boat should be able to cope with anything.

Spend the money saved on a mid-life overhaul of your fuel and injection system and/or some modern high quality blocks and leaders on deck to control the sails from the cockpit.
 
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I find it strange so many are recommending in-boom reefing when in the real world such systems are outnumbered 50 or 100 to 1 by in-mast reefing.

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This is clearly due to the length of time that dependable systems have been available.


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... the system is ugly and will disfigure your yacht so much you will not want to use it again. There is a yacht near me in my marina with an in-boom reefing system and it is the ugliest boat in a 300 berth marina.

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There are quite a few in my marina (2000 berths) and I cannot say I find any of them ugly. Just shows that beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Personally, I find modern production yachts ugly, but that is just my own subjective opinion - popular appeal and numbers show that I am in a minority.

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I am a little perplexed as to why a sail maker would recommend a profurl boom system for the small mainsail on the HR 94

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Perhaps because he is a Profurl agent? /forums/images/graemlins/ooo.gif

But I was extremely satisfied with the furling headsail he made for me and I respect his opinions. He is German and extremely correct and totally free of persuasive BS. He would also be willing to fit an in-mast system for me and is aware that I will probably use his services whatever I choose. A local Italian rigger who has worked for me in the past, who has a vast amount of experience including fitting both in-mast and in-boom systems, independently endorses the installation when I asked his advice.

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So given your 5.2 ton displacement

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Actually, in cruising trim, with some fuel and water in the tanks, the last crane to lift her showed 7.1 tons on the gauge.

But you are right, the sail area is definitely small - she is, after all, a motor sailor (but one that does sail surprisingly well), and your proposal is eminently sensible. If only I could be sensible ...

Thanks for your thoughts, very much appreciated.
 
I have sailed extensively on two boats with in mast reefing. Both boats, at some time, got into straights in heavy conditions that required cutting away gear in order to shorten sail.

In mast is fine for day sailors in good conditions. For more adventurous sailors, I find they cause problems.

I mend sails (and make 'em, among other things) for a living. Here in Spain, I loose count of the number of mains from boats with in mast reefing I have repaired, because of failure (jamming) of the reefing system.

I would seriously consider single line reefing. Spend money on line managing and handling systems. The less blocks to turn around, the better. A deep pocket for every furled line in the cockpit.
And I had spaghetti for dinner!!

This worked on Senta, a 35" 11 ton motor sailer I lived and traveled on for more years than I'll own up to tonight. Oh, all right then, eleven.
 
These are very interesting comments regarding in-mast systems, especially coming from someone who has had practical experience of what can, and does, go wrong. Unless, of course, the systems were early models that have since developed into more reliable systems.

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I would seriously consider single line reefing. Spend money on line managing and handling systems. The less blocks to turn around, the better. A deep pocket for every furled line in the cockpit.

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I will indeed consider single line reefing. Thanks for your thoughts.
 
An alternative to single line reefing is a two line reefing system - one for the luff and your existing system for the leach - this avoides the problem of pulling through a mountain of line to pull in a reef.

It gives a two stage process like now but all done from the cockpit
- ease main sheet to take off pressure, release vang
- Slacken halyard to a mark for the reef
- pull in luff line and winch in last bit
- pull in leach line
- tension halyard

retrim and off you go. I have a lot large main sail (about 32sq m) and it works very well
 
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An alternative to single line reefing is a two line reefing system - one for the luff and your existing system for the leach - this avoides the problem of pulling through a mountain of line to pull in a reef.

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Erm yes, but that's almost full circle, only one step back to what I have now - no new toys to play with.

Seriously though, my biggest mistake was not to go to at least a two line system when I fitted the lazy jacks and bag - trying to fit the luff reefing cringle to the gooseneck hook on the boom impeded by the bag was a major problem.

To reiterate my thought processes. When I changed from hanked headsails to roller reefing the transformation is still vividly in my memory. It was another world to no longer be on the foredeck, clawing down a big, flogging genoa, washed by breaking seas as the bow buried itself in the short, steep, Adriatic waves. Especially once when a particularly big one took the entire sail out of my arms and overboard - luckily the sheets were still attached to drag it back with, inch by inch. Now I just pull a line and, presto, it disappears.

That was over 20 years ago and what teeth-sucking and tut tutting went on from the purists - still does in some quarters. But most of us - well, us short or single-handed cruisers, recognise and accept headsail roller reefing as a standard, even a life-saver.

Now we are going through the same scenario with mainsail roller reefing and the same Cassandras are predicting, in the worst case, disasters and at best, inefficiencies.

Well, I would like to pull a single line from my cockpit steering position and, just like with my headsail, watch my mainsail instantly either reduce or completely disappear, according to my requirements.

Much of this desire is born of certain meteorological manifestations in my sailing area, the eastern Adriatic sea. High temperatures coupled with high mountains with cool temperatures at their plateaus and peaks can induce catatonic winds of ferocious gusts instantly, with little or no warning. To be caught, as I sometimes have, in a Bora wind is enough to wish for extremely swift sail reduction.

I cannot help but feel that slab reefing, with either one or two lines to the cockpit, will, by the influence of Mr Murphy who usually rides along - and who sometimes even brings his brother - will snarl, jam or otherwise have me leaping up to the mast to sort it all out.

Decisions, decisions - I am still tending to the in-boom solution but am something of a floating voter at this stage.
 
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Decisions, decisions - I am still tending to the in-boom solution but am something of a floating voter at this stage.

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I know the feeling, analysis paralysis.

Have you considered that you can try different options?

Why not experiment for a few months with 2 reefing lines connected to the 2nd reef of your current mainsail? Not sure of the details at the gooseneck end of your boom but you will need to make sure the luff reefing line runs through an eye or pulley to resist the aftwards pull of the clew reef line.
 
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Why not experiment for a few months with 2 reefing lines connected to the 2nd reef of your current mainsail

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Not really an option, unless I am prepared to wait another year for my new mainsail and I really do need a new one.

I left Italy and my boat last week after winterizing her - sails down and stowed, water tank and lines emptied, antifreeze in the engine (we had -16ºC in N. Italy one winter). As I live 700km away I shall not get down again until next April when I shall fit out and be off cruising for the summer.

If I give my order to the sailmaker next year it will be the busiest period for him and the rigger - I won't get my sail (and reefing system if applicable) until very much later in the season, when I could be anywhere. It is Italy, after all, and everything takes twice as long as anywhere else.
 
I am in the same situation as regards what to have on my new cat.

I have established the leisure furl reefing is much better than pro furl systems but apparently you still need to get the boom/mast angle 80 degrees or less for it to work.
 
You just want an excuse to buy a new sail! /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

To answer the point about the two-line system fankling up: this is a legitamate concern. If I can comment from my experience, the secret is in getting the details right, firstly in ensuring that all lines have a clean lead: this can be quite difficult to achieve, particularly between boom and mast foot. A fair degree of experimentation with shackle chains and blocks on lanyards is likely to be required. Less obviously, a methodical system for storing the lines in the cockpit so that they don't go astray and interfere with each other. I simply flake mine under the sprayhood, but the sequence is important, with the next one likely to be needed on top. Haliard pre-marked and reefing lines colour coded. Including luff and leech Cunninghams I have 8 reefing lines coming back and, with the system now properly organised, they don't fankle - even when it's bouncy.
 
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I have established the leisure furl reefing is much better than pro furl systems

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I have seen this conclusion from reviews, although Profurl was also recommended, but concur with Talbot earlier in this thread that, in my own personal circumstances and on cost/benefit grounds, Profurl is the way to go.

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apparently you still need to get the boom/mast angle 80 degrees or less for it to work.

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Furling boom angle is the critical requirement for these systems, together with the sail being built for the specific model and not modifying and using an existing mainsail as some have done. I also believe that the sail should be cut quite flat and without fancy go-fast shaping if it is to furl correctly.

Profurl quote a boom angle when furling of 87 degrees and the solid boom vang ensures that.
 
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You just want an excuse to buy a new sail!

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Well, yes, but in truth there is not much need of an excuse. I'm using the original mainsail that came with the boat 27 years ago. It is still in amazingly good condition but built at a time when heavier sailcloth was used and, with age hardening, the devil to fight with to get down.

When the sailmaker looked at it he whistled and commented about some fraying threads and how sails were once blade cut without heat sealing the edges like these days.

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To answer the point about the two-line system fankling up: this is a legitamate concern. If I can comment from my experience, the secret is in getting the details right ... [meticulous and valuable details snipped]

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You clearly are a very methodical fellow, which I am not. In fact, your admirable directions only go to convince me that such line organisation is beyond my limited abilities to control and the sooner I have a roller reefing system with only a reefing line and halyard, the better.

Aahh, I feel better now.
 
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