Privatising SAR - makes me depressed on so many levels

[chanelyacht]

Chanelyacht will probably be along soon when he is off watch to give you an insider view, but can't understand why you think there will be any difference. Bristows are contracted to provide a rescue service which by definition means operating in potentially dangerous conditions. They have been doing this for years for the coastguard, other governments and similar environments such as the North Sea oil rigs.

Civilian rescue work is not a military activity and the use of military equipment and personnel only came about because there was a need for sea rescue services for aircrew when ditchings at sea were common. The antiquated equipment used by the military suggests it is not now a high priority for the MOD, so makes sense to move to a contractor that will operate state of the art equipment and provide wider coverage.

As if by magic

In all the years Bristow, then CHC, have been providing CG helos, (and Bond operating the Jigsaw SAR aircraft from Aberdeen / Miller platform) I don't think there has ever been a H&S issue delaying, or stopping, a mission.

There are CAA exemptions granted to allow SAR helos to do things that other commercial helos can't, and the crews are incredibly well trained and motivated. The new contract guarantees 98% availablilty, and also vastly reduces the time-to-scene around the UK. It is a good deal.

I'll also be sad to see the Sea Kings go, and may well shed a tear when ours does its last fly by. But equally, I'll welcome the new arrivals with no resentment. I've worked with the CG contract helos for a long time, and they are just as impressive.

If anyone doubts that, Billy Deacon, the last SAR winchman to die during an operation, was a Bristows man during the rescue of many others from the Green Lilly off Scotland.

The nature or name of the employer does not come into what these guys do, or how they do it.

 

[UncleAlbert]

Thanks for the info from those of you in the know on this.
I am starting to feel more comfortable that the service will be there when needed.
Just need to keep the 'bean counters' away from the operational side of the business now.

 

[NormanS]

In Scotland, at present, half the SAR helos are Bristows, and half are services. Thankfully I've never had to call on them, but seeing them in action, I don't think it makes the slightest difference what name they have on them. They all normally do a spendid job.

 

[glashen]

utterly rediculous idea I know but I assume it would be inconceivable to give the existing organisation better gear.

Yes you could do that, it probably would cost more for the same service, not that the military are inefficient or that Bristows cut corners, but providing this sort of operation is what Bristows do and the RAF or RN could presumably have tendered if they had wanted to. I do think Dylan you have to listen to those who have seen how the commercial operations have worked, and speaking of Solent and Portland Helicopters I have never noticed any lack of professionalism or cost cutting.

The truth is that this probably is the only way that the new kit will be provided, the government just won't cough up this sort of cash up front given our economic circumstances, but in this case I really see no reason to be depressed about this economic reality.

 

[grumpy_o_g]

Anecdotally the reputation of the RAF has always been uber cautiuos the Navy more give it a go and the Army even more "can do" in attitude.
Certainly in law there would be no defence at a subsequent enquiry to taking more risks just because the crew are military.
Robin
Pleiades of Birdham
MXWQ5

Anecdotally as told by the Navy I assume. I'm getting sick and tired of tired of hearing this utter carp rolled out by some tired old cretin who thinks he was in the "best" service. You do a disservice to yourself more than the RAF pilots and crew. Having worked and flown with Navy, Army and RAF pilots they all have a similar respect for each other's abilities which are, unsurprisingly, broadly similar as is their attitude. I've picked up far too many pieces of aircrew as a result of both peacetime and TOW operations to have anything but contempt for someone who trots out such utter garbage from a position of little or no knowledge. A "can do" attitude takes on a whole new meaning when flying and maintaining aircraft - fortunately Army, Navy and RAF pilots, aircrew and groundcrew get pretty much the same training so they all realise that. It's just the Captain Pugwash's and Colonel Blimp's who can't understand why you don't just shove a collision mat over a hole on a low level jet that will be doing 500Kts with a bucket of sunshine underneath, nor in a transport that will carrying 100 troops around at a few hundred knots and several miles up.

As far as the law is concerned a military pilot would be subject to a Court Martial and the operational limits they fly to are determined by the military although the Military must operate within certain civilian flying regs (e.g not blatting through TMA's, etc.). If a pilot decided to overload his aircraft for example he would not be subject to civil law.

 

[Yeoman of England]

Interesting points of view from all sides. My only concern is that the East Coast/Southern North Sea is now left wide open with the proposed closure of Wattisham & relocation to Manston.
With the added problems of MRCC Yarmouth closing shortly, Thames to follow and the current "technical" difficulties in linking Humber/Yarmouth/Thames albeit on a temporary basis this is
a right lash-up by the MCA. We already have to call on helo coverage from our colleagues in Belgium to cover the patch. However time will tell as with all new projects !!!
Personally I will miss the yellow budgies practising "dope on a rope" dunks outside the Ops room window!!!

 

[Pleiades]

Seems that Mr grumpy og has got something against tired old cretins - well that is me sunk for sure .

So let me earn myself an even fiercer Fatwah from Mr Grumpy..... and I assure you that this is all factual....

5 Aircrew/Pilots in the crew room, awaiting a shout. But it is raining heavily.
"Hmmm", says the Biggles type - "hope we don't get a shout now - lets make a nice pot of tea and we will go out and check the aircraft once the rain has stopped".
Jack Tar Navy Officer says "Hmmm, don't want to get wet now chaps, lets send someone out on a logistics resupply run and ship us in some nice brollies to keep us dry when we go to the aircraft."
Army Pilot knows all about getting wet as spent formative years in a soggy trench on Salisbury Plain. Is therefore prepared and wips a brolly out of a pocket on his flying suit. Yanks it out a bit too forcefully breaking it. Curses profanely and goes out in the rain muttering about poor quality of service issue brollies nowadays........
Private Commercial civy pilot says "Hmmm, it is very wet out there, must check if my contract says I can get paid more in the rain......"

Oh and just to please Mr Grumpy, the last pilot is not in the crew room. He is a Royal Marine Pilot and on seeing the heavy rain he immediately went out to run around the airfield carrying some heavy bricks in his flight bag cause the opportunity to get pist wet through is good for the soul.

But - just to please Dylan -- the shout does come in, they all rush to the aircraft and fly off to complete the mission.
The End.

Robin
Pleiades of Birdham
MXWQ5

 

[glashen]

Interesting points of view from all sides. My only concern is that the East Coast/Southern North Sea is now left wide open with the proposed closure of Wattisham & relocation to Manston.
With the added problems of MRCC Yarmouth closing shortly, Thames to follow and the current "technical" difficulties in linking Humber/Yarmouth/Thames albeit on a temporary basis this is
a right lash-up by the MCA. We already have to call on helo coverage from our colleagues in Belgium to cover the patch. However time will tell as with all new projects !!!
Personally I will miss the yellow budgies practising "dope on a rope" dunks outside the Ops room window!!!

I don't see how you can say the the East Coast is "left wide open" when you will have at least 4 helicopters within flying range. There is quite a storm of protest in the south over the closure of Portland as well, but now we can see the full plan I find it difficult to get up any outrage at what does seem a sensible scheme.

 

[Yeoman of England]

I don't see how you can say the the East Coast is "left wide open" when you will have at least 4 helicopters within flying range. There is quite a storm of protest in the south over the closure of Portland as well, but now we can see the full plan I find it difficult to get up any outrage at what does seem a sensible scheme.

Look closely at the contract. Yes there will be 4 helos but not four crews!!! At the moment there are 4 helos but not 4 crews. It is called shift work. At any one time there will be 1 helo at humber, 1 at manston, 1 at kojkside (Belgium). I work in this environment and it is very unusual to have 2 helos from one base operational at the same time.

 

[PeterWright]

mmm-privatisation of the public sector
-leaving the elderly infirm up to their necks in p...s and s..t.
-Making very disturbed mentally ill people go to work along with the legless and blind! and even better if you dont have any arms.
-putting the disturbed mentally ill out on the streets(Oh no that is the government)
-letters that never arrive
-loss of wireless communications in rural areas
-loss of theatres;out of hours health care

The NHS and the Royal Mail are both failing organisations which remain firmly in the public sector. The NHS, in particular is an ancient monument which has long since demonstrated its unfitness for purpose as an organuisation, dspite being served by literally millions of excellent staff. It's high time we looked for a radically different way of providing health care, which doesn't mean the end of it being free at the pint of delivery, as is demonstrated by nearly every other member state of the EU.

That which in the 1940's was a major improvement on what had gone before is now, in the 2010's, sadly lagging behind the average standard found in the western world, and other EU nations do better than the NHS at a substantially lower cost per head of population. Yet again, we Brits kid ourselves that we're the best and refuse to learn from other nations - it's just like the motor industry all over again!

Peter Wright

 

[chanelyacht]

Look closely at the contract. Yes there will be 4 helos but not four crews!!! At the moment there are 4 helos but not 4 crews. It is called shift work. At any one time there will be 1 helo at humber, 1 at manston, 1 at kojkside (Belgium). I work in this environment and it is very unusual to have 2 helos from one base operational at the same time.

That's correct , and exactly the same as current military arrangements - one crew, one duty cab, one spare cab. Except the military often can't maintain that.

Don't forget the east coast margins are also covered by Den Helder (Holland, Bristows).

 

[Cloona]

privatisation has severely damaged the NHS - e.g. cleaning contractors plus a load of "managers" on fat money managing the contracts - MRSA etc - food is private is **** - (private hopsitals have nice carpets but no doctors or equipment).

trains - well - a complete shambles and a sham market with penalties and again managers getting fat looking after the private contracts -

Nationalisation of both will be more effective, efficient and save money ...... and everyone will be better off except the shareholders in the pharmaceutical and private health companies ...

I am sure the guys on the frontline of the private SAR service will be just as brave and committed but I cannot see why someone somewhere should make money, profit from them

 

[Grumpybear]

privatisation has severely damaged the NHS - e.g. cleaning contractors plus a load of "managers" on fat money managing the contracts - MRSA etc - food is private is **** - (private hopsitals have nice carpets but no doctors or equipment).

trains - well - a complete shambles and a sham market with penalties and again managers getting fat looking after the private contracts -

Nationalisation of both will be more effective, efficient and save money ...... and everyone will be better off except the shareholders in the pharmaceutical and private health companies ...

I am sure the guys on the frontline of the private SAR service will be just as brave and committed but I cannot see why someone somewhere should make money, profit from them

Basic problem with the NHS was forecast by Mr Beveridge himself: that its cost would inexorably increase in real terms until it overwhelmed the entire output of the country. It isn't there yet, but sooner or later it will. Even Thatcher's so called cuts, about which the Left wax so vicious, were only slight reductions in the rate of real terms increase.

And before the managers were brought in, nobody in the NHS or the Department of Health knew where the money went: the doctors spent it, with the best of intentions, and the taxpayers forked out. True, once they had done an audit the managers took over for their own benefit, but that is what they always do in the end.

The only thing to be said for privatisation is that it is no worse than nationalisation. The Soviet Union nationalised everything, providing the model for the NHS among other nationalisations, and eventually collapsed under the weight of its own inertia.