Private sale v Broker

I

iona

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Cornwall. Boat in Hamble, for sale.
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We have reluctantly decided to put our boat up for sale. Having not done this for a while I was a bit horrified to be reminded of the brokerage fees (6-8% plus VAT), and thought we might have ago ourselves. Any words of wisdom much appreciated, and recommendations on websites. Have looked at boats.com which allows private sellers, whereas yachtworld.com is only for brokers. How do we reach the all important (with the euro exchange rate) european market?
 
We bought our boat in 2006 privately. Wasn't keen on buying through a broker and the process went very smoothly. I did use a solicitor to handle the actual purchase as the sum of money was large (for me). The solicitor was very professional.
When I was looking I did look at quite a few Southerly 115s and the broker boats were all unkempt and generally looked a mess. The private owner we bought from had kept the boat in tip top condition and so there was no contest. As a buyer, dealing with the owner is a far nicer experience than with a slick or not so slick broker.
 
If you sell privately (which we did with our last boat), then put up a website with loads and loads of photos and detailed description....

We had 40+ pictures, and 2 and a half pages, detailing everything on board, condition of boat and key components like engine etc etc...

We had loads of feedback about how nice it was to be able to get a real view of boat layout and condition before commiting to a viewing...

We sold within 2 weeks.
 
So how did people find your website? Does that not require specalist input to make sure your website came up on various search engines? Did you design the website yourself or have professional help? Thanks for the advice so far everyone.
 
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So how did people find your website? Does that not require specalist input to make sure your website came up on various search engines? Did you design the website yourself or have professional help? Thanks for the advice so far everyone.

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It's not too difficult to build a website using various free programs.
They usually provide some method of adding 'keywords' which the search engines scan when looking for web pages.

You can put things like "yacht, yacht for sale, boat for sale, type of boat here, location of boat here, blah, blah blah"

The more relevant keywords and key phrases you put in, the more chance your site has of being found by people who are looking for those specific things.

IMO the hardest part (for me anyway) is being creative enough to make the layout and titles attractive enough to keep peoples' attention.

I'm a sole trader in a specialised narrow market and I can consistently get my site (yukky as it is) on the first page of google with no problems.

You have to 'submit' your site to the search engines to get them to find you in the first place but that's not difficult either.

Try it, it's not too hard and should pay dividends.

As Morgana says, being able to see detailed pictures of a prospective boat, especially layout and equipment, is more attractive to me than who's selling it.

HTH

Kim
 
For a boat your size and money there are real advantages of using a broker. The market is fairly limited. Key things are pricing it right, having it in a location where it is accessible to buyers, preparing it well for viewers and presenting it to the widest range of potential buyers. This is what good brokers do to earn their keep, and you have to do with all the attendant cost and hassle if you are going to do it yourself.

There are currently 6 HR45s list on Yachtworld.com, all over the place and varying in price from £125k and £260k, so a fairly narrow market if somebody is looking specifically for that model.

Try not to get too hung up about what a broker takes out of the sale - it is what you get that is important, and getting it securely. Remember they don't get paid until you get your money!
 
I suggest a lot depends on the cost of the boat and how quickly you want to sell. A good broacker should have the boat on a web site and advertised in the press as well as on their board, to get advertising this widely on your own is going to cost. Also depends on how specialist the boat is, do you need to find buyers from all over or is there likely to be someone local? Final piont is whether there is a strong owners association, boats like Nic 35's often have a que for them and people contact the owners ss to find if there are any going.
 
Good morning:

Yes, brokers charge a bomb when compared to many other type of sellers i.e. real estate. The question is "what do they do to earn their keep?"

Some years ago one was forced to use them because of the difficulty and expense of advertising but I suggest that the average brokerage now spend very little on printed adverts relying on the internet instead.

I also suggest most buyers now hit Google or other search engines as their first stop which often leads to a broker whose only expense has been the cost of putting the particulars of the yacht on the web. Cost is only one consideration however I also must point out that a broker has to put of with a lot of viewers who have very little interest in 90% of the yachts they want to view so a lot of time is wasted with "tire kickers". If you are prepared to deal with interested parties there is no real need for a broker.

I put yacht for sale details on my web site forwarding any incoming questions direct to the owner leaving the them to deal with interested parties and arrange to show the yacht. This provides the same advertising a broker would provide - making details available to interested parties.

Once the deal is done the paper work is relatively simple.

I guess the big question is "Do you have the time and interest to show the yacht and deal with the paper work or do you want to turn it over to someone else who will make the problem go away?"

I know of two people who have sold their yachts through E Bay of all places which was a real surprise (one a Princess 38). In addition there are dozens of web sites which will list your yacht at no cost. A friend who sold his yacht personally sent me the following links:
http://www.sailing-boats-for-sale.com/
http://www.noblemarine.co.uk/boatsforsale/boat/11033/
http://www.boatsandoutboards.co.uk/php/welcome.php3
http://www.apolloduck.web.tr/
http://www.theyachtmarket.com/
http://www.annoncesbateau.com/
http://www.botentekoop.nl/

I don't recommend starting your own site as it is not worth the hassle plus search engines don't index small one subject sites all that well - just get your details on as many sites as you can.

Once this is done type in search strings to the search engines to see how often your yacht appears on the first couple of pages.

Of course, you must put a "for sale" sign on the yacht as this is a big help especially if it is in a position where the public can see it.

Cheers and good luck

Sqeaky
 
While you are probably right about the power of putting your boat in front of a large number of potential buyers through these sites, the key thing is to find a "qualified" buyer - that is one who wants your boat and is in a position to buy.

The original poster has a niche boat (only 6 currently listed on the biggest brokerage website) of high value (anything up to £250k). The right broker specialising in this type of boat will firstly have a pretty good idea of the likely selling price and be able to weed out the tyre kickers. Dealing with the paperwork and finance on this size transaction is also not without its problems.

This is not to say that such boats can't be sold privately, it is just hard work unless you are really lucky. Speed of sale can also be an issue. An extra year's running costs on a boat you don't want can often exceed the brokerage fee.

By the way, I am not a broker, just an informed observer of the market.
 
[ QUOTE ]
While you are probably right about the power of putting your boat in front of a large number of potential buyers through these sites, the key thing is to find a "qualified" buyer - that is one who wants your boat and is in a position to buy.

The original poster has a niche boat (only 6 currently listed on the biggest brokerage website) of high value (anything up to £250k). The right broker specialising in this type of boat will firstly have a pretty good idea of the likely selling price and be able to weed out the tyre kickers. Dealing with the paperwork and finance on this size transaction is also not without its problems.


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If he is selling his boat for 8% +vat on a £250k boat thats £20k +vat =£23.5k.
I would expect someone to do a dam site more than stick it on the internet for that kind of money.
You could pay a professional web developer to do you a very slick site of you own and pay a solicitor do do the paper work and still have a enough for a major pissup out of 10k!

There is a place for brokers but there fees are a bit over the top. We have just bought a house for £250 and all the fees on that where less than 10k and there is a dam site more paper work on a house sale than a boat sale.

If i going to buy another boat and there was two for sale one through a broker and one by the owner i would always go to the owner selling his boat first.
The owner will always give you more detail than a broker.

Rob
 
I think you are missing my point - and the point that I posted earlier. The objective (I assume) is to sell the boat with the highest possible return to you. In doing this, brokers have to provide some benefit, whether it be achieving a higher price or achieving a quick sale, or removing the hassle otherwise they do not stay in business. There is nothing to lose by trying a broker. And, of course they do much more than just "stick it on the internet" - although some sales are easy and some are difficult, but you are not paying for the perceived "work" you are paying to get your boat sold.

Equally there are many people who would rather deal with a professional when buying than deal with a private owner.
 
Brokers are in my experience, after looking for a new boat for the last 12 months or so, a very mixed bunch. Some I dealt with had boats for sale at prices which were wholly unrealistic and didn't seem to care that much that they were not selling despite the fact they were taking up real estate and not earning a return, whilst others would work hard at finding out where you were liable to make a deal to try and get the thing shifted. The broker I bought from in the end had just taken the boat on from a broker who had had no serious offer in 9 months, and did the deal withing 3 months of taking the boat on. He fought his clients corner with us when it was appropriated but clearly also advised his client on the realities of life.

If you decide to go for a broker test the likely candidates as a buyer first, that way you will get a feal for how they will deal with your buyer, and represent you. Check out how they handle paperwork and deposit money and the final payment, remeber no one will tell you they may go bust in a week or two, so check your money will be safe.

If you choose to sell yourself, make sure you understand the law of contract as it will apply to you, or some smart arse buyer will rip you off. Equally sort out in advance how you will hold deposit cash in a way that protects your buyer and you equally, perhaps with a solicitor for example.

Good luck, in the present climate you will need it however you sell.
 
Thanks one and all for contributing to the debate, some interesting points. I am inclined to list privately for the next few months using some of the suggested websites, and if we haven't sold by then give it to a broker in July/August when we are getting closer to home. We bought through Transworld Yachts who are the UK agents for Hallberg rassy, and might use them again, particularly as they are based at Hamble Point which seems to be a good place to park a boat for sale.Pricing is tricky with such a range of prices of those on the market, will go and have a very close look at pictures and specs.
 
Having just bought our cat privately, I would say if you do sort out a sale yourselves, you will probably need to involve a solicitor for handling the funds. We had no end of issues with banks trying to transfer funds whilst getting a bill of sale at the same time and in the end a lot of trust between ourselves and the seller was involved and the amount was significantly smaller than your potential sale.

The only 'same day' payment we could manage was a CHAPS payment from our account to his - Banker's Drafts are no longer considered to be 'cash with your name on it' and will take longer to clear than a personal cheque!

And despite the fact that we both had accounts with the same bank and it was essentially an internal transfer, it still took 45 minutes with me in the local branch while the bank staff twittered about the amount of funds being transferred, despite the fact they knew exactly who both the transferor and transferee were.......
 
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