Princess R35 and Fairline F33. Value for money ?

RandallStephens said:
“Flash dayboat attached to a larger yacht“ has also been a growth market.
Examples include Dutch yards such as Wajer, Vanquish, and even TenderWorks- who do completely bespoke builds to a quality level that they are allowed brand their builds as “t/t Feadship”. TenderWorks also have a new series production line called Vandal. But Wajer and Vanquish are in a different league to Fairline/Princess in terms of quality, and TenderWorks is the Eagle Lightweight GT To the Wajer/Vanquish Bentley to the Fairline/Princess Jag if we want to use UK autos as an analogy.
The Italians have some interesting options- if I were looking for a RIB as a dayboat I’d look at Anvera, but in general you're not going to come close to the Dutch for build quality and willingness to modify to the owner’s desires. Bottom line for me, you’d have to be a pretty loyal owner of a larger Fairline/Princess to buy one of these two over the Italian options in the market, let alone the Dutch.
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The Dutch especially Vanquish and Wajer have high quality but average sea keeping. Wajer is better in this regard.
Wajer is more a Riva competitor with a cheaper price tag and is doing very well.
Vanquish is alloy build and should be compared to similar boats, like the Baglietto MV series which only two (custom) where made the MV13 and 19, both very expensive, even more to a Vanquish.
Tenderworks there is a couple custom builders in Viarggio, first that comes to mind is Arnaboldi ie. Woodenboat which would make an alternative competition.

Its the same when you speak of Riva, with the Dutch a lot of fleshy stuff but if the water is tough it does not compare to an Itama, Magnum or Otam.

Car analogies do not cut it in boats as most components are made by different companies.
 
Those Wajers and Van Dutch are pretty dreadful sea keeping wise.
They are ok when it’s flat but have to slow right down in a chop .Shallow deadrise s , weight at the stern with outdrives .
They have fine entries which kinda works up to a certain wave hight , but after that it’s game over .
The reason i know the SoF dealers are @ La Rague ( Dutch family owned / run marina ) so there are a lot about .
All Dutch flagged btw .
Often with the afternoon winds the bay of Cannes cuts up , so the return trip back to La Rague / La Nap can be “interesting “.
They struggle, we are in our element just glide / slice past at 28 knots while they are in the low teens twixt planing and being knocked off the plane , all on board getting soaked as the wind bows the spray over the back into the cockpit .

Infact often while sunbathing between the sheltered Lerin islands you can see the white horses getting up in the afternoon .
No kidding in a baiting kinda way we wait for one to up anchor and start heading back .Let him get 1/ 2 mile ahead then run them down it’s hilarious , bit naughty I know

Pretty boats but no substance.In the yard very flat in the mid to aft sections .Fine for Hollands inland meres and canals.
 
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PowerYachtBlog said:
The Dutch especially Vanquish and Wajer have high quality but average sea keeping. Wajer is better in this regard.
Wajer is more a Riva competitor with a cheaper price tag and is doing very well.
Vanquish is alloy build and should be compared to similar boats, like the Baglietto MV series which only two (custom) where made the MV13 and 19, both very expensive, even more to a Vanquish.
Tenderworks there is a couple custom builders in Viarggio, first that comes to mind is Arnaboldi ie. Woodenboat which would make an alternative competition.

Its the same when you speak of Riva, with the Dutch a lot of fleshy stuff but if the water is tough it does not compare to an Itama, Magnum or Otam.

Car analogies do not cut it in boats as most components are made by different companies.
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Oh, I absolutely agree about the sea keeping. Thats why I said “flash” day boats rather than “seaworthy”. But most of the people I know who have large enough budgets and yachts to have day boats following them around value the “flash” and high quality build more than they do the ability to handle the rough stuff, since they and their guests usually don’t venture out unless the conditions are pretty benign. I know a few who have Expedition style vessels and like to go further afield to more remote places, but they don’t usually bring a day boat, and their tenders are more likely to be work/military based RIBs.

There are definitely some Italian competitors In the high end bespoke tender market segment. Too rich for my blood, but I have actually considered an Anvera for a project I have in the works, which I may be coming back to you Med experts about for some opinions. But I did trade in SWMBO v1.0, who was Italian, for a much more recent vintage SWMBO v2.0, who is Dutch (and of Polish origin, like a Feadship hull!) so I have a preference for Dutch yards vs. Italian. ;)
 
Portofino said:
Those Wajers and Van Dutch are pretty dreadful sea keeping wise.
They are ok when it’s flat but have to slow right down in a chop .Shallow deadrise s , weight at the stern with outdrives .
They have fine entries which kinda works up to a certain wave hight , but after that it’s game over .
The reason i know the SoF dealers are @ La Rague ( Dutch family owned / run marina ) so there are a lot about .
All Dutch flagged btw .
Often with the afternoon winds the bay of Cannes cuts up , so the return trip back to La Rague / La Nap can be “interesting “.
They struggle, we are in our element just glide / slice past at 28 knots while they are in the low teens twixt planing and being knocked off the plane , all on board getting soaked as the wind bows the spray over the back into the cockpit .

Infact often while sunbathing between the sheltered Lerin islands you can see the white horses getting up in the afternoon .
No kidding in a baiting kinda way we wait for one to up anchor and start heading back .Let him get 1/ 2 mile ahead then run them down it’s hilarious , bit naughty I know

Pretty boats but no substance.In the yard very flat in the mid to aft sections .Fine for Hollands inland meres and canals.
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Also depends how one defines “substance” I suppose. I’ve been a sailor for nearly 5 decades, and have done loads of ocean crossing races over the years, so I value sea worthiness more than many large mobo owners do. That said, build quality is also something that is important to me, and just as an older Ferretti is objectively built better than the other mainstream builders’ boats and newer Ferretti Group products, the top Dutch yards build to higher standards than their Italian equivalents.

I don’t like the Van Dutch or Vanquish types myself. Think they’ll look dated quite quickly, like the Wallys ended up aging poorly IMO. The Wajers are OK looking to me. No argument re: the sea keeping. See my reply to PYB above. Seems like a lot of them are using IPS and other less than optimal propulsion systems too.
 
Portofino said:
All Dutch flagged btw .
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Forgot to address this. I’ve been told that the Netherlands is a much friendlier jurisdiction than most EU countries for yacht registration. Quick, cheap, and light on the regs apparently. That’s why you see a lot of European owners of smaller vessels that won’t likely leave EU waters flying Dutch flags. (Reference to Flying Dutchmen intended! ;) )

Lengers, the Dutch dealer for Sanlorenzo group products who have a Balearics base too, apparently sell loads of boats to Germans and other non-Dutch EU nationals.
 
I love what the Dutch do, Feadship in particular, but also other small yards like Steeler, Vanquish, Mulder, Van Der Heijden and so on so forth.

Italians had a lot of family bespoke cottage orientated custom and semi/custom builders up until 2010. The majority of Italian boat building was in reality this.
It is a pity that the 08/9 recession and not so delicate government towards boating lead to the industrials Azimut/Benetti Group, Ferretti Group leading the way.

A client of mine got the Anvera 48 after an Itama 45 he owned for five years.
He is happy about it, mostly the consumption of only 3 liter per mile with stern drive Cummins options.
Still a year later he wants to go for the 55 now. Anvera 48 is lighter and not as seaworthy as the Itama but he will take that for the 2 liter per nm less in consumption.
 
Wow, thats a discount by any stretch, but I still wouldn't be tempted by that.

Be interesting what the market deems these worth as they appear 2nd hand... its like you know a Windy will be expensive, a bayliner cheap, but the market sets the price and the depreciation could be frightening if Fairlie have misjudged this one that badly
 
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