Nick_H
Well-Known Member
You can relax, I know Trev and my post was indeed tongue in cheek.
Princess P62
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gjgm
Well-Known Member
cue Gludy
jfm
Well-Known Member
Methinks you speak with 1st hand knowledge of such poachery...
jfm
Well-Known Member
Re: Princess P62 (internal stairs)
Yuo are dead right about internal steps Hurric. Loads of builders are deleting them to make bigger insides. Squeeker Yacht 75, Sq 68 and 78 (though, they can fit them if you ask hard) have all lost their internal steps. New Sq65 doesn't have them. I think it's a big mistake. The builders who are doing this haven't so far as I can tell lived on boats in sunny climates with chef carrying food up/down from galley and suchlike. I'd be very unlikely to buy a step-less boat. But the builders tell me I/we are in the minority.
Yuo are dead right about internal steps Hurric. Loads of builders are deleting them to make bigger insides. Squeeker Yacht 75, Sq 68 and 78 (though, they can fit them if you ask hard) have all lost their internal steps. New Sq65 doesn't have them. I think it's a big mistake. The builders who are doing this haven't so far as I can tell lived on boats in sunny climates with chef carrying food up/down from galley and suchlike. I'd be very unlikely to buy a step-less boat. But the builders tell me I/we are in the minority.
Nick_H
Well-Known Member
Yep, 5 now!
PowerYachtBlog
Well-Known Member
Re: Princess P62 (internal stairs)
[ QUOTE ]
Yuo are dead right about internal steps Hurric. Loads of builders are deleting them to make bigger insides. Squeeker Yacht 75, Sq 68 and 78 (though, they can fit them if you ask hard) have all lost their internal steps. New Sq65 doesn't have them. I think it's a big mistake. The builders who are doing this haven't so far as I can tell lived on boats in sunny climates with chef carrying food up/down from galley and suchlike. I'd be very unlikely to buy a step-less boat. But the builders tell me I/we are in the minority.
[/ QUOTE ]
so this what I mean, you pay 2 mill for a boat and there is no possibility they do the inside steps for you....
in this case I prefare forking an extra 25% and buying a SL, Falcon, Possilipo or similar
1) they are better build boats
2) at least I can have the boat to a higher degree of customization
as for the Abs I do agree starting at about 450.000 EUROS she is very competitive and the details is impressive to compete with the best,
but then I was surprised at the price of the 52 which carries the same engines and starts from around 720k EU
[ QUOTE ]
Yuo are dead right about internal steps Hurric. Loads of builders are deleting them to make bigger insides. Squeeker Yacht 75, Sq 68 and 78 (though, they can fit them if you ask hard) have all lost their internal steps. New Sq65 doesn't have them. I think it's a big mistake. The builders who are doing this haven't so far as I can tell lived on boats in sunny climates with chef carrying food up/down from galley and suchlike. I'd be very unlikely to buy a step-less boat. But the builders tell me I/we are in the minority.
[/ QUOTE ]
so this what I mean, you pay 2 mill for a boat and there is no possibility they do the inside steps for you....
in this case I prefare forking an extra 25% and buying a SL, Falcon, Possilipo or similar
1) they are better build boats
2) at least I can have the boat to a higher degree of customization
as for the Abs I do agree starting at about 450.000 EUROS she is very competitive and the details is impressive to compete with the best,
but then I was surprised at the price of the 52 which carries the same engines and starts from around 720k EU
Hurricane
Well-Known Member
Re: Princess P62 (internal stairs)
[ QUOTE ]
so this what I mean, you pay 2 mill for a boat and there is no possibility they do the inside steps for you....
[/ QUOTE ]
You really ought to visit one of these factories and you'll understand where they are coming from. The scale of the operation is stunning. I took forumite djefabs with me on my last visit - I'm sure he will agree.
It IS possible to custom build the spec on a boat within certain parameters but it has to be done several months before the boat is actually built. This technology is a "just in time" process where all the components arrive at the correct place at the correct time. If I was specifying a boat from scratch, I would probably not have not had teak side decks and flybridge making it cooler on the feet and easier to clean but we didnt want to wait so picked a boat that was already "down the line" with a much fuller spec. Actually I'm very pleased with the spec - we might have had our arms twisted on the teak anyway.
Mike
[ QUOTE ]
so this what I mean, you pay 2 mill for a boat and there is no possibility they do the inside steps for you....
[/ QUOTE ]
You really ought to visit one of these factories and you'll understand where they are coming from. The scale of the operation is stunning. I took forumite djefabs with me on my last visit - I'm sure he will agree.
It IS possible to custom build the spec on a boat within certain parameters but it has to be done several months before the boat is actually built. This technology is a "just in time" process where all the components arrive at the correct place at the correct time. If I was specifying a boat from scratch, I would probably not have not had teak side decks and flybridge making it cooler on the feet and easier to clean but we didnt want to wait so picked a boat that was already "down the line" with a much fuller spec. Actually I'm very pleased with the spec - we might have had our arms twisted on the teak anyway.
Mike
MapisM
Well-Known Member
Re: Princess P62 (internal stairs)
[ QUOTE ]
I would probably not have not had teak side decks and flybridge
[/ QUOTE ]I'm saying since years that I'd rather pay more for *not* having teak decks, but it's amazing how many boaters still would consider a boat cheapish without it.
[ QUOTE ]
I would probably not have not had teak side decks and flybridge
[/ QUOTE ]I'm saying since years that I'd rather pay more for *not* having teak decks, but it's amazing how many boaters still would consider a boat cheapish without it.
Hurricane
Well-Known Member
Re: Princess P62 (internal stairs)
[ QUOTE ]
I'm saying since years that I'd rather pay more for *not* having teak decks, but it's amazing how many boaters still would consider a boat cheapish without it.
[/ QUOTE ]
You've got to admit though - it does look good.
[ QUOTE ]
I'm saying since years that I'd rather pay more for *not* having teak decks, but it's amazing how many boaters still would consider a boat cheapish without it.
[/ QUOTE ]
You've got to admit though - it does look good.
Nautical
Well-Known Member
Re: Princess P62 (internal stairs)
Take your point PW, however the 52 is not just 5' longer its bigger in every direction and alot more costly to build, the wood which some love and some hate costs twice as much as the american oak on the 47, then if you check out the spec sheet there is loads of stuff standard, like autopilot, E120 plotter, cameras, Big TV, teak decks, very fancy programable windscreen wipers and washers, all the appliances, mood lighting, leather in the cabins, fancy led reading lights, mosaic tiling to the bathrooms, oh crickey you could go on and on.
I will admit though that the price has been pitched to reflect demand and with everyone of them for this season already sold and into 2009 we think its about right.
The pricing on the new 70 is much the same, some will be surprized at where we are pitching her but again there is very little if anything to compete and she is an absolute stunner, kind of similar to when the first 45 came out people thought it was just gorgeous and they sold like hot cakes, so much so we are badgering the yard to put her back into production, with D6 370's she is nearing 40 knts for a 14 m SC and running 1.5 mpg and the best handling on anything around and all for £270K + tax, we were stunned when they told us that she was being replaced by the 47, anyway watch this space /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
I am off again, can't take the salesman out of the boy /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Mind you just to balance things the Princess V45 does a fine job of imitating our previous 45 and we have lost sales to Princess having no 45 on DPH's to offer anymore and the V45 is a very good all rounder to boot, probably a little more UK orientated than our 45 aswell.
Take your point PW, however the 52 is not just 5' longer its bigger in every direction and alot more costly to build, the wood which some love and some hate costs twice as much as the american oak on the 47, then if you check out the spec sheet there is loads of stuff standard, like autopilot, E120 plotter, cameras, Big TV, teak decks, very fancy programable windscreen wipers and washers, all the appliances, mood lighting, leather in the cabins, fancy led reading lights, mosaic tiling to the bathrooms, oh crickey you could go on and on.
I will admit though that the price has been pitched to reflect demand and with everyone of them for this season already sold and into 2009 we think its about right.
The pricing on the new 70 is much the same, some will be surprized at where we are pitching her but again there is very little if anything to compete and she is an absolute stunner, kind of similar to when the first 45 came out people thought it was just gorgeous and they sold like hot cakes, so much so we are badgering the yard to put her back into production, with D6 370's she is nearing 40 knts for a 14 m SC and running 1.5 mpg and the best handling on anything around and all for £270K + tax, we were stunned when they told us that she was being replaced by the 47, anyway watch this space /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
I am off again, can't take the salesman out of the boy /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Mind you just to balance things the Princess V45 does a fine job of imitating our previous 45 and we have lost sales to Princess having no 45 on DPH's to offer anymore and the V45 is a very good all rounder to boot, probably a little more UK orientated than our 45 aswell.
MapisM
Well-Known Member
Re: Princess P62 (internal stairs)
Blimey, here goes what I just said in this very same thread about your views being rather objective...
/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
Blimey, here goes what I just said in this very same thread about your views being rather objective...
/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
MapisM
Well-Known Member
Re: Princess P62 (internal stairs)
[ QUOTE ]
You've got to admit though - it does look good.
[/ QUOTE ]Guilty as charged, your honor.
Even more so if you see below how the deck of my boat looks like... /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
But on boating matters I am a rather strict fan of the "form follows function" concept, and I still have to find a single functional reason for teak decks (aside from aesthetics), particularly when it's a thin layer of large planks with fake seams, glued on a grp or steel structure.
[ QUOTE ]
You've got to admit though - it does look good.
[/ QUOTE ]Guilty as charged, your honor.
Even more so if you see below how the deck of my boat looks like... /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
But on boating matters I am a rather strict fan of the "form follows function" concept, and I still have to find a single functional reason for teak decks (aside from aesthetics), particularly when it's a thin layer of large planks with fake seams, glued on a grp or steel structure.
Hurricane
Well-Known Member
Re: Princess P62 (internal stairs)
[ QUOTE ]
and I still have to find a single functional reason for teak decks (aside from aesthetics), particularly when it's a thin layer of large planks with fake seams, glued on a grp or steel structure.
[/ QUOTE ]
Agreed /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif
[ QUOTE ]
and I still have to find a single functional reason for teak decks (aside from aesthetics), particularly when it's a thin layer of large planks with fake seams, glued on a grp or steel structure.
[/ QUOTE ]
Agreed /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif
Nautical
Well-Known Member
Re: Princess P62 (internal stairs)
Ah ha, That was just to fool you /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Nope I am still Mr Fair, all the builders make good products there are no really bad ones these days, each has their little niggles, design and techy and have their blindingly good points too. The Sessa 46 as an example is a cracking boat and beat us in the MBY test (or rather it was the testers favourite) Ok so some people dont' want to go zooming all over the place at 40 knts............ no, that's reserved for the few who managed to get their name down for a ABS 47 /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif (well you cant blame me /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif!)
Fairline build some of the best flybridges around and Sweaker are hot with the bigger stuff too spesh the new 70 , good design and excellent value for money, Princess excellent at conservative good all rounders and the 42 fly is about the best there is, 54 is a cracker too, Sealine have some very interesting designs coming through and Absolute are probably the best performers on the galmourous, speed, fuel thing.
Italian wise, best of the bunch for me is Ferretti as a mainstream builder but I do follow PowerYachts flow a bit in that I think other builders could learn a lot from Italian production techniques and lets be honest here, most of the fly and SC market of recent tends to follow the Italians. They may have a reputation in other manufacturing areas for great flair and design but lacking in the quality stakes but when it comes to boat building they are top of the league, not forgetting that they have been doing it for a lot longer than we have. One only has to look back of the days of Riva, Baglietto, Bennetti, Couach, Versilcraft, Canados, Codecasa, CRN, the list goes on and realise that Italy is really where it has been at for a very long time.
Of course that doesn't gel too well around here for some but I think there are many also that realise that we are very nationalistic and perhaps rightly so, I perhaps either gently or sometimes through bloody mindedness try to get people to see a little further than the world of boats, yachts and matters maritime do not revolve around us always, shockingly /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif there many extremely fine builders elsewhere, some I am afraid to say are another league up from what we are used to(mind you there are some ruddy awful ones too!) , but some people will take issue with that and fair enough, all I try to do is to say there is another world outside of some peoples knowledge of boats, yachts, boat builders and perhaps a little more willingness to see past what we may already know might be quite a pleasant experience.
Gosh I am in a pensive mood this evening /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Ah ha, That was just to fool you /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Nope I am still Mr Fair, all the builders make good products there are no really bad ones these days, each has their little niggles, design and techy and have their blindingly good points too. The Sessa 46 as an example is a cracking boat and beat us in the MBY test (or rather it was the testers favourite) Ok so some people dont' want to go zooming all over the place at 40 knts............ no, that's reserved for the few who managed to get their name down for a ABS 47 /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif (well you cant blame me /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif!)
Fairline build some of the best flybridges around and Sweaker are hot with the bigger stuff too spesh the new 70 , good design and excellent value for money, Princess excellent at conservative good all rounders and the 42 fly is about the best there is, 54 is a cracker too, Sealine have some very interesting designs coming through and Absolute are probably the best performers on the galmourous, speed, fuel thing.
Italian wise, best of the bunch for me is Ferretti as a mainstream builder but I do follow PowerYachts flow a bit in that I think other builders could learn a lot from Italian production techniques and lets be honest here, most of the fly and SC market of recent tends to follow the Italians. They may have a reputation in other manufacturing areas for great flair and design but lacking in the quality stakes but when it comes to boat building they are top of the league, not forgetting that they have been doing it for a lot longer than we have. One only has to look back of the days of Riva, Baglietto, Bennetti, Couach, Versilcraft, Canados, Codecasa, CRN, the list goes on and realise that Italy is really where it has been at for a very long time.
Of course that doesn't gel too well around here for some but I think there are many also that realise that we are very nationalistic and perhaps rightly so, I perhaps either gently or sometimes through bloody mindedness try to get people to see a little further than the world of boats, yachts and matters maritime do not revolve around us always, shockingly /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif there many extremely fine builders elsewhere, some I am afraid to say are another league up from what we are used to(mind you there are some ruddy awful ones too!) , but some people will take issue with that and fair enough, all I try to do is to say there is another world outside of some peoples knowledge of boats, yachts, boat builders and perhaps a little more willingness to see past what we may already know might be quite a pleasant experience.
Gosh I am in a pensive mood this evening /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
PowerYachtBlog
Well-Known Member
Re: Princess P62 (internal stairs)
perfect Nautical:
add to that the practical benefits Italy have invented to boats like this and you have it all:
- Canados first epoxy glued wood construction 1970s
- Italcraft shaft tunnel drives 1970s
- Italcraft surface drives 1970s
- Italcraft variable modified deep vee hull 1980s
- Italcraft Kevlar construction 1980s
- Itama underwater exhaust systems 1980s
- Baia Arneson Surface Drives use 1980s
- Ferretti integrated extended b/platform 1986
- Overmarine Mangusta big side windows 1992
- Azimut glued windows 1992 (now copied by many all builders)
- Azimut big glued side hull windows 2003 (Mapis does not like this)
plus the following design innovations like extended flybridge, dual raised saloon as used on Squadrons
I still think nowadays that the Squadron was a British interpretation to the all time classic Possilipo 52 Technema introduced in 1986, 6 years before the Squadron came to production
so I think the Italians still do there game and will always be leaders in yacht building, one of this reason is that there are plenty of passionate people in the buisness....
perfect Nautical:
add to that the practical benefits Italy have invented to boats like this and you have it all:
- Canados first epoxy glued wood construction 1970s
- Italcraft shaft tunnel drives 1970s
- Italcraft surface drives 1970s
- Italcraft variable modified deep vee hull 1980s
- Italcraft Kevlar construction 1980s
- Itama underwater exhaust systems 1980s
- Baia Arneson Surface Drives use 1980s
- Ferretti integrated extended b/platform 1986
- Overmarine Mangusta big side windows 1992
- Azimut glued windows 1992 (now copied by many all builders)
- Azimut big glued side hull windows 2003 (Mapis does not like this)
plus the following design innovations like extended flybridge, dual raised saloon as used on Squadrons
I still think nowadays that the Squadron was a British interpretation to the all time classic Possilipo 52 Technema introduced in 1986, 6 years before the Squadron came to production
so I think the Italians still do there game and will always be leaders in yacht building, one of this reason is that there are plenty of passionate people in the buisness....