Princess P52 or Fairline Sq 48

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Smooth Sailing

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Hi All! It's been awhile since I have posted in the forum since the v52. I have managed to sell my v52 a year ago and am now back in the market but now looking for a flybridge boat.

Both boats seem to have their merits and are very different styles including interior configurations. One is IPS and the other is shaft drive too. For the P52 I would go for the Volvo 670.

I have seen photos of the Sq48 from the dealer here in Singapore and also been in the P52 which was here at the boat show last year.

There is the slight difference in price of about gbp 100-130k as well. Use of boat will be in the local waters and maybe the occasional trip to the islands such as Tioman, Phuket etc...

Have a family of 3 little ones hence wondering if the Sq 48 maybe a bit too small as beam seems a lot smaller than the P52.

Appreciate any advice before signing the dotted line.

Thanks
 
The old model Fairline 48 was extremely tight inside. Everything was just a couple of inches too small. To get in the third cabin was all but impossible with the upper bunk bed down. There are significant benefits in terms of space gained by using IPS, the new Princess V48 is a prime example so it remains to be seen how the new Squadron 48 fares but it will be smaller than the Princess.

Shafts are lovely and simple, very little to worry about. They would be my choice and with the Princess being a bigger boat their fitment doesn't compromise internal volume. The P52 is a big boat inside, I've got some issues in terms of layout but others love it so it isn't black and white.

The P52 feels more spacious than our current P50 and it isn't hard to understand why, it's significantly larger, more than the indicated 2 feet. I've been delighted with the P50 from a performance and build perspective. Odd bits and bobs as you would expect with a new boat but nothing that's ever stopped us using the boat. Here in the UK the after sales support is spot on and that has a lot to do with your experience. I've actually met Vrit Yongsakul the top man from Princess Yachts Singapore whilst in Phuket and found him very approachable. He has got some former Princess UK talent on board so on the face of it a safe pair of hands to buy from.

We have the CAT C12 engine options and they are seamless in terms of power delivery, you couldn't ask for more and in just 250 hours of operation they haven't missed a beat.

I can easily picture myself enjoying the Princess in Phang Nga bay :)

Henry
 
Hi Henry,

Thks for your views. I would agree that the P52 has some girth to her whilst the Sq 48, maybe more of an edgy and "new" design boat but of course with exemplary finishing.

Great that you have met Vrit as well. We were both in schools in the UK at bout the same time and funnily attended the same university. He has been a great help with my v52 and I would agree that he has the right support as well. Peter Mahony the GM at Princess Singapore was from Princess UK if I am not mistaken. My gut feel is telling me to go for the Cat 715 but my wallet is telling me to go for the Volvo 670 !

Let me know if you are ever headed this way.

Cheers
 
Every other boat I've owned has had Volvo engines so it's not as though they don't know what they are doing. As you say it all comes down to the pennies or SGD !

I will keep in touch if we end up in Singapore. We may be there in April en-route to Thailand for Songkran. I do have a plan to put a boat in the water at Singapore then wander up the side of Malaysia to Thailand. A few years off though.

Henry
 
SQ48

Smooth Sailing said:
Hi All! It's been awhile since I have posted in the forum since the v52. I have managed to sell my v52 a year ago and am now back in the market but now looking for a flybridge boat.

Both boats seem to have their merits and are very different styles including interior configurations. One is IPS and the other is shaft drive too. For the P52 I would go for the Volvo 670.

I have seen photos of the Sq48 from the dealer here in Singapore and also been in the P52 which was here at the boat show last year.

There is the slight difference in price of about gbp 100-130k as well. Use of boat will be in the local waters and maybe the occasional trip to the islands such as Tioman, Phuket etc...

Have a family of 3 little ones hence wondering if the Sq 48 maybe a bit too small as beam seems a lot smaller than the P52.

Appreciate any advice before signing the dotted line.

Thanks
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Hiya, im actually the owner to be' of the first sq48 so forgive me if i sound a little biased, but i feel you are comparing quit differant boats, if it was my dilemma, id be looking at cost being a huge factor and residual values in the coming years. running costs and moorings/servicing all play a big factor with the larger heavier princess, from a build quality point of view much of a muchness and i myself did consider the princess last year at the boatshow albeit expensive, the fairline is now the new resin infused hull which is said to be stronger and lighter so another consideration there regarding economy and also having the more efficient an economical IPS on D6 435 engines! the 3 cabin layout which iv gone for with the 48 has a huge third cabin not seen in previous builds of a similar sized boat so maybe worth a look in the flesh before you buy! hope this helps and as always this is just my opinion!! Good Luck with whichever you purchase though! cheers
 
kahns one said:
Hiya, im actually the owner to be' of the first sq48 so forgive me if i sound a little biased, but i feel you are comparing quit differant boats, if it was my dilemma, id be looking at cost being a huge factor and residual values in the coming years. running costs and moorings/servicing all play a big factor with the larger heavier princess, from a build quality point of view much of a muchness and i myself did consider the princess last year at the boatshow albeit expensive, the fairline is now the new resin infused hull which is said to be stronger and lighter so another consideration there regarding economy and also having the more efficient an economical IPS on D6 435 engines! the 3 cabin layout which iv gone for with the 48 has a huge third cabin not seen in previous builds of a similar sized boat so maybe worth a look in the flesh before you buy! hope this helps and as always this is just my opinion!! Good Luck with whichever you purchase though! cheers
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I'm not sure there is going to be much difference in mooring costs between the 2 boats but there will be a significant increase in internal space for a 3 child family with possibly a crew / host(ess). I've found that once you get over a certain size there is a bit of flexibility in the measuring stick.

Servicing wise underwater / transmission service costs on a shaft driven 52 are pretty much zero. A pair of IPS drives will come with a significant annual service bill. I think you need 28 litres of special Volvo oil which makes a decent Montrachet look like cheap plonk.

Residual values are a tricky one to predict. My own take on it is you can avoid some obvious high risk purchases but because neither the Sq 48 or the P52 are "bad" buys it's hard to chose between them. Buy which ever boat works best for you or which ever one you prefer and enjoy it. That way when it loses money as it surely will you've had some value for your money and a load of great memories.

Henry :)
 
Not sure i said the p52 wasnt resin infused!
most of the builders are these days but its a new concept for fairline! whats your worry with IPS?
Hurricane said:
Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't the new P52 also resin infused?
Also I have a big worry over IPS - probably just a personal thing but I'd stick to good old shafts.
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kahns one said:
Not sure i said the p52 wasnt resin infused!
most of the builders are these days but its a new concept for fairline! whats your worry with IPS?
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As out drive type systems go I'm not sure there is anything specifically wrong with IPS per-se it's more the comparison between IPS and the alternative - shafts.

Out drives are quite complicated with much of the gubbins under water. Compared to more traditional out drive systems which have been around for many years IPS and similar arrangements are relatively new so there will be some degree of the unknown. That said when the magazine ran a feature on them seeing how they'd fared I don't think they came up with any inherent faults.

Henry :)
 
I looked at the P52 for the first time on Friday, and for a hot climate I think it's a great layout. I really like that when you open up the patio doors it extends the cockpit area, and that snacks and drinks are so close at hand without having to walk through the saloon. If your kids are watching a film for example, you don't need to disturb them to top up your G&T.

In comparison, I dislike the galley down layout on the Sq, same as I disliked it on earlier Princesses. When you eat on the flybridge there's loads of stuff to move from the galley to the fly - plates of food, crockery and cutlery, wine, ice buckets, glasses, condiments, place mats etc., and it's a long trek on the Sq, and involves two sets of stairs. In a hot climate like Singapore you will probably use the flybridge a lot, so the Princess layout will work much better in that respect. The issue some people have with the P52 layout is that you lose the internal dinette, but you don't have one on the Sq48 either. Anyway, I think the dinette is more a cool weather requirement, so less likely to bother you, but if it does, then neither boat is suitable.

I also much prefer the saloon layout on the P52, because it's bigger and you have seating on both sides, which is more sociable when you have a few friends on board. Fairline make fine boats, so you can't go too far wrong with either one, but between the two I think the Princess layout works better.
 
Nick_H said:
In comparison, I dislike the galley down layout on the Sq, same as I disliked it on earlier Princesses. When you eat on the flybridge there's loads of stuff to move from the galley to the fly - plates of food, crockery and cutlery, wine, ice buckets, glasses, condiments, place mats etc., and it's a long trek on the Sq, and involves two sets of stairs. In a hot climate like Singapore you will probably use the flybridge a lot, so the Princess layout will work much better in that respect. The issue some people have with the P52 layout is that you lose the internal dinette, but you don't have one on the Sq48 either. Anyway, I think the dinette is more a cool weather requirement, so less likely to bother you, but if it does, then neither boat is suitable.
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Agree with you 100% on the galley forward/down issue. For a warm climate, it would be a dealbreaker for me. Having said that though, IMHO Fairline may be hedging their bets on the Sq48 because that little forward dinette on the port side of the saloon seems a bit useless to me and maybe they could squeeze in a small galley there. Regarding the running cost issue, I think the IPS600s will struggle to push the Sq48 to a decent top speed and for that reason I don't think the Sq48 will be a whole lot more fuel efficient than the Sq52
 
Deleted User said:
Agree with you 100% on the galley forward/down issue. For a warm climate, it would be a dealbreaker for me. Having said that though, IMHO Fairline may be hedging their bets on the Sq48 because that little forward dinette on the port side of the saloon seems a bit useless to me and maybe they could squeeze in a small galley there. Regarding the running cost issue, I think the IPS600s will struggle to push the Sq48 to a decent top speed and for that reason I don't think the Sq48 will be a whole lot more fuel efficient than the Sq52
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I'd be surprised if that's the case. My old T46 only had 430 hp on shafts, and could get close to 30 knots downhill. The new Sq48 is resin infused, so I guess it's lighter than the old one, and IPS does seem to give some performance benefits if the hull is designed for it, even if they're not quite as great as VP would like us to believe. The Sq48 may not be a rocket ship, but i'd be surprised if it doesn't reach 30 kts fairly comfortably, so i'd expect it to be more efficient. Long term servicing costs and residual values, now that's another matter altogether!
 
Nick_H said:
I'd be surprised if that's the case. My old T46 only had 430 hp on shafts, and could get close to 30 knots downhill. The new Sq48 is resin infused, so I guess it's lighter than the old one, and IPS does seem to give some performance benefits if the hull is designed for it, even if they're not quite as great as VP would like us to believe. The Sq48 may not be a rocket ship, but i'd be surprised if it doesn't reach 30 kts fairly comfortably, so i'd expect it to be more efficient. Long term servicing costs and residual values, now that's another matter altogether!
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IIRC, in the recent MBM test the Targa 48 couldn't hit 30kts so its unlikely that the heavier and bigger Sq48 will reach 30kts either. Magazine tests always get the best performance figures so when a Sq48 is loaded with cruising gear and has a season's worth of Med fouling, my guess is that it will struggle to hit 25kts at best and small engines that are having to work hard to maintain boat speed invariably drink a lot of fuel. As for weight, the Sq48 may have a resin infused hull but boats are much taller to accommodate a full standing height master cabin these days and contain more equipment; the Sq48 weighs 14t according to the Fairline spec and I'd be surprised if your T46 weighed quite as much although I'm happy to be flamed on that
 
Ah right, hadn't seen the MBM test. That is a bit concerning, and I believe it's the only engine option? I guess the Targa 48 was fresh out of the moulds, so maybe Fairline still need to do some tweaking, though I don't know how much you can tweak with IPS.
 
Nick_H said:
Ah right, hadn't seen the MBM test. That is a bit concerning, and I believe it's the only engine option? I guess the Targa 48 was fresh out of the moulds, so maybe Fairline still need to do some tweaking, though I don't know how much you can tweak with IPS.
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I guess Fairline (and Princess) are a bit behind the curve on IPS given that some manufacturers have been fitting IPS into their boats for 10yrs. Thats not intended as a criticism because I think it was probably right to wait to see if IPS had any hidden horrors before committing to the technology but it must mean that their designers and engineers have not amassed as much real world experience with IPS as other boat manufacturers. If the latest MBY report is to be believed, Princess may have dropped a b*****k as well with their latest IPS powered V48 as the report draws attention to the hard upwind ride compared to previous Princesses and suggests this may have something to do with the engines being positioned further aft compared to traditional shaftdrive. However, I'm sure that both Fairline and Princess will get it right quickly
 
Yep, good point, and to support your view they also say it rides quite bow high. That would make for quite an unpleasant boat to drive, so I hope there's some scope to improve it. If i'm not mistaken Fairline have mounted the engines further forward and used transfer shafts to avoid that particular issue.
 
Nick_H said:
If i'm not mistaken Fairline have mounted the engines further forward and used transfer shafts to avoid that particular issue.
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Correct so somebody at Fairline seems to have considered the issue of weight distribution. I'm sure the engineers at Princess considered the issue carefully themselves but came to a different conclusion.
 
The Squadron 48 and our current Princess 50 are both the same length overall, we have an extra 10 inches of beam but there is a significant weight difference quoted. Fairline quote a dry weight of 14 tonnes with IPS600 D6 435hp engines, Princess a displacement of 19 tonnes with the Volvo D11 670hp engines. Traditionally Princess allow for fluids and other items so out on the water the weights may be closer than the figures suggest. The Princess came as standard with a 7kw generator, I'm not sure if the Fairline weight includes provision for power generation or if it is classed as an extra.

By the time you add a few bits and pieces, a tender, full water tank some friends a case of Stella and a bottle of sparkling wine for the ladies the weight soon adds up. Our 715hp CAT C12 engines offer genuine 30 knot plus cruising and 25 knots all day long with no effort. We have an 11KW generator, air conditioning and sufficient scatter cushions to furnish Louie Spence's apartment thrice over. There is a very big gap between 870hp and 1,430hp.

I know IPS claims a bit more efficiency over shafts although interestingly Volvo seem to be pushing the performance advantage on craft exceeding 30 knots. The big cruise ships like pod drives so they must have some benefits other than the fact they don't need drive shafts longer and thicker than Dirk Diggler's willy, a nightmare to keep balanced (the drive shafts not Dirk's gentleman sausage).

The proof will come in the eating. At the end of the day people far cleverer than I have done the maths and deemed it OK.

Henry :)
 
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Deleted User said:
Correct so somebody at Fairline seems to have considered the issue of weight distribution. I'm sure the engineers at Princess considered the issue carefully themselves but came to a different conclusion.
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If you move the lumps too far forward you run the risk of negating the very reason for fitting them.

Henry :)
 
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