Princess 54 or...

[Screwie]

Hi all,

To quickly introduce myself, I've been lurking around the forums for a few years and read many of your interesting posts. I've been looking to buy a flybridge yacht in the 50 to 70 foot range for two years now (I'm really slow to decide but also love looking around). I've chartered a 50 foot (MC5) and 64 foot boat (Princess 64) in summer in the med the last two years and loved every minute of it.

So now I'm actually getting close to finally decide on a boat and would love to hear your experiences/opinions/advice.

So background is that I'm looking for a boat to station in the med, for summer holidays and long weekends. I'm now eyeing the Princess 54 (probably 2008+ model) as it fits most of my needs:

Annual total cost ex fuel (including depreciation, maintenance and berth, berth I assume around 15k) around 70k
3 cabins with 6 beds (no bunk beds)
At least 2, preferably 3 baths
Flybridge with a table to seat 6-8 (so Princess 58 doesnt seem to fit the bill)
And for some reason, total Princess fanboy since a long time so preferably a Princess

What do you think? Anyone have experience with this boat? Other suggestions? I've been thinking about stretching for a Princess 60 but especially the depreciation keeps putting me off, also, this would be my first real boat...

Thanks in advance for any and all advice!

 

[Portofino]

Welcome,
I think you have your head screwed on the right way Screwie buying a secondhand boat after the majority of depreciation has occurred , and bugs attended to .
Your 1 st boat in the Med is the best throw of the dart at the board , it does not really matter - Princess are fine .

Once you have a few seasons ,and worked out how you use the boat ,find out it’s weak points and discovered it’s deficiences
You will have a better idea looking around of better alternatives .

There’s a Princess dealer in my Marina ( and Sunseeker ,Fairline and many others as well )
Here’s the link
http://www.dlb-yachting.com/en

Nice airport is an easy n cheap place to get in / out all year .You can drive too if you wish .Or take the train , French legal system is transparent- no nasty surprises .

You have not said where in the Med you chartered or where you are thinking of the 1 st base to start Med boating ,bear in mind ease of convenance getting to the boat .

 

[Hurricane]

IMO, the Princess 54 is a fine boat.
I really like it.

However her size might be a problem.
If you are looking to keep a boat in the Med for as low a price as possible, mainland Spain can be very attractive.
So, I looked up the P54 boat dimensions to see how she would fit into one of the berths in Sant Carles - which is arguably the cheapest berthing in the Med.
A 15m berth can be rented at SC for under 4,000 euros pa inc water and electricity.
SC is only 100 miles from Mallorca.

Most Med berths operate a "nominal size berth scheme".
This means that all the berths have a "nominal size".
In Sant Carles, you are allowed 110% of the boat's length as long as you allow 3% of the berth's width for fenders.
For example a 15m berth has a nominal width of 4.7m
This means the biggest boat allowed on a 15m berth is 16.5m LOA by 4.65m wide.
Looking at the P54, she is 16.57 LOA by 4.57m wide
That makes the P54 very tight for a 15m berth and at SC they have been clamping down recently.
At SC they only offer 15m or 20m berths.

Anyway, what I'm saying is, consider the length and beam dimensions when you are considering the costs.
It might make a difference.
In the case above, maybe a BIGGER boat would be better if you have to pay for a bigger berth anyway.
If you see what I mean.

BTW, the P54 is so close to a 16.5m LOA and she fits within the width that it might be worth asking as Sant Carles to see if they would let you keep one on a 15m berth.
Our berths are UK pontoon style - not the usual "squeeze them in" "stern to" Med style.

If you are interested, just ask.

 

[Screwie]

Thanks for the answers! In terms of location, I was looking around Genoa, Italy - most likely Varazze, as this is closest to me (I live in Switzerland), only about a 4 hour drive, and seems like a really nice marina. My charters were basically between Monaco and the Porquerolles. Interesting point on the nominal size, good to know.

 

[Portofino]

We are currently in Switzerland too and are based boat wise in the Cote d Azur .
Tempting as it is to relocate a bit closer the Liguria coastline is pretty dull and the shoreside “ entertainment “ not as interesting as say Cannes / Antibes/ Monaco et al ,which are year round resorts always something going on .
We have looked hard at the marinas offered in the Liguria for that very reason - nearer travel wise ! Sometimes in the winter crossing the various passes / tunels have issues .

From memory I paid CHF 50 rtn Gva - NCE ( 45 min fgt ) and the airport car park was CHF 35 under Palexpo for 2 days - to fly down and ck on the boat .You could day trip it by air if you choose .
It 6 hrs by car either way via Torino ( via St Bernardino ) or Lyon .

I think the CdA is worth the extra 2 hrs - buts just my opinion.

Some times on the boat in the summer it’s easy to drop into lazy mode - no plans ,no expectations, all the time in the world
We just get up - late , by the time we have walked the dog , got a croissant, done a bit of fiddling about with the boat it’s nearly lunch so in the bay of Cannes the Lerins is an easy economic option to get out and go for a swim - cool off ,- people watch / boat watch then nod off in the afternoon sun on the rear sun pad etc .
But there’s plenty of other bays / coves within 1/2 hr @ 30 knots to mix it up a bit .

I don’t think you have that in the Liguria .

In the winter ( out of high summer season ) many Ligurian places are ghost towns .Ok if you like that I guess ? Over the years we have pulled off the autostrada and looked @ the various Ligurian marinas - not convinced - re signs of life

However the shoreside stuff is a lot less ( except fuel - it’s taxed more in IT) .

No worries try it and see - you can always move .

 

[Eren]

I stayed at Marina di Loano at Liguria for a winter. It is quite new and modern marina. Even the list prices looks same as other marinas, they can give extreme good prices when you negotiate. But I agree that the shore life is dull. The cruise ground is boring as well, no coves, just a flat shore. Nearest interesting places are Portofino to the east, Monaco to the west and Corsica to the south, which are all far. For me it was a decision of logic but for pleasure boating I would choose other locations than Liguria. Choosing the correct place will make you get most out of your boat, as I see that you are already aware.

An optional plan of "Varezze for the first year and somewhere other later on" can be good as well because it will be your first year with your new boat and there can be modifications that you would like to do. In Varezze you will have access to good quality and economic back up for that.

As for Princess choice, I think it is a very good one. I had a P64, the hull was very good, the finish quality was very good and all the equipment and materials used were of very high quality. Once you are at the boat, you can feel that the boat is quite robust. I sold it after one year of use because for me she lacked the "wow factor". The design of her did not get me excited as does a Sunseeker, Ferretti or an Azimut. However this is all personal and many others may think vice versa. All in all, Princess is a very good boat.

 

[Screwie]

I agree that around Cannes is really nice to cruise, we've been to the Lerins a few times, we definitely loved it there. So far I haven't heard much good about the cruising grounds around Genoa, but so far we've decided that two plus hours extra drive (or needing to fly) is not yet what we want. I think "first year Varazze and then see" is the best plan for us.

Definitely getting more comfortable with the P54 choice, and for the price I can't find another one that ticks all the boxes...

 

[MapisM]

in the bay of Cannes the Lerins is an easy economic option to get out and go for a swim
...
But there’s plenty of other bays / coves within 1/2 hr @ 30 knots to mix it up a bit.

PLENTY of other bays/coves within 15Nm?
Either my memory fails me, or they must have redesigned the coastline recently...

 

[Portofino]

PLENTY of other bays/coves within 15Nm?
Either my memory fails me, or they must have redesigned the coastline recently...

Or you just don,t know the area ?
Google earth W of La Napoule along the Esterel Mountain coast to Agay — May be 100,s of coves ??
( tried to copy n paste - sorry if it’s not worked via I pad )
If it has click on it to open and while you move along either way E or W see all the anchorage s ? :encouragement:

https://maps.apple.com/?address=Med...tRUAxoDfttTMeG0A5L9xw/S7ERUBB4IHCkRgcHEA=&t=h

 

[Scubaboy79]

I agree that around Cannes is really nice to cruise, we've been to the Lerins a few times, we definitely loved it there. So far I haven't heard much good about the cruising grounds around Genoa, but so far we've decided that two plus hours extra drive (or needing to fly) is not yet what we want. I think "first year Varazze and then see" is the best plan for us.

Definitely getting more comfortable with the P54 choice, and for the price I can't find another one that ticks all the boxes...

I also think the P54 is a very fine boat. I've been watching the prices closely and it feels like they've gone up in the last year - perhaps the shortage of them on the brokerage market (like the P50) is driving up prices given lack of supply?

 

[PowerYachtBlog]

I also think the P54 is a very fine boat. I've been watching the prices closely and it feels like they've gone up in the last year - perhaps the shortage of them on the brokerage market (like the P50) is driving up prices given lack of supply?

That is all correct in all used boats. If you can squeeze a bit more and want a Princess though I would go for the 56 such a nicer and better handling (more central COG) and has a sharper look to it and its layout its so much bettwe.
Anyways if you go a Princess 54 try to avoid the small engines so avoid the D11 675hp if you want a serious cruiser, and that the galley in between the cabins is not very much sought after by experienced Med users, hence the 54 did not sell much to French Italian and other names where preferred.

 

[MrB]

Slight Fred drift aimed at PYB. You mentioned the smaller engines in the above post making a big difference, what is your take on the Sunseeker 86 with 1622 V10 2000 M94 engines as opposed to the 1950 12V 2000 M94 engines? Much of a difference over all and will it make a difference when coming to sell one ?

 

[MapisM]

Or you just don,t know the area ?

Well, I surely don't know it as well as yourself, having cruised along that stretch of coast just a couple of times.
Otoh, I guess it's also subjective whether a spot deserves to be called a nice anchorage or not.
'Fiuaskme, along the coastline W of M-LN, there's nothing worth writing home about unless you reach the Îles d'Hyères, which IIRC are much more than 15Nm away...
...But each to their own, of course! :encouragement:

 

[MapisM]

the galley in between the cabins is not very much sought after by experienced Med users

Bingo.
I didn't comment the OP preference before, along the lines of who am I to argue...?
Then again, he might be interested in different views.
The P54 is one of the first Princess of that size (possibly THE first?) designed for a full beam master cabin, and the overall layout is compromised by that choice.
On top of the weird forward galley, both guest cabins feel cramped, and so does the (shared) guests head.
Btw, the hull is a tad narrow for a 54, and it shows also in the e/r, where the accessibility is inadequate on the external sides of the engines. Not one of their best efforts, imho.

In fairness, the full beam master cabin always requires a lot of compromises in any mid 50 footers, a size where the traditional layout with the bow master cabin is more efficient in terms of space usage.
In fact, among the Brit boats in that size range, the only models that I considered myself, and which imho are better overall than the P54 (even if older), are the P57 and the Sq58 - both with bow master cabin.
Otoh, if the full beam master cabin is a must, I would consider the Azimut 55, rather than the P54.

 

[Screwie]

Definitely interested to hear these types of opinions as well, good to hear the pros and cons! I thought that the forward galley seemed larger than for example on the 56 (eg 54 has full standing fridge freezer). So even though I liked the mid galley in the 64 and the aft galley in the mc5 I felt this galley had the pro of size vs the others?

I generally like the full beam master cabins also because of the cabin height, the VIP beds are always so high up that the headroom is too cramped for my liking...

I also had a look at the Azimut 55, main thing I didnt like was the size of the table on the flybridge, seemed to hardly fit 4 people.

 

[Bouba]

Well, I surely don't know it as well as yourself, having cruised along that stretch of coast just a couple of times.
Otoh, I guess it's also subjective whether a spot deserves to be called a nice anchorage or not.
'Fiuaskme, along the coastline W of M-LN, there's nothing worth writing home about unless you reach the Îles d'Hyères, which IIRC are much more than 15Nm away...
...But each to their own, of course! :encouragement:

Absolutely agree with you MapisM, whilst other places have fine cruising grounds, it’s not till you get to my neck of the woods that you truly find boating paradise

 

[Eren]

Being a person who owned both Azimut and Princess, let me tell you the pros and cons of both in my opinion:

Princess:
Better hull in terms of seakeeping
Slightly higher quality in all terms
Better headroom

Azimut:
Sleeker design both interior and exterior (to my taste)
Usually more social flybridge setup
Can be better in price (must be checked)

Azimut cockpit "may be" smaller but if that is the case, you can overcome this by a custom made narrower and longer cockpit table. You can see my solution below:



6 can easily dine here, and 8 is also possible, but not that comfortable of course.

With regards to placement of the master cabin, I like sleeping at the bow cabin. 2 reasons:

1- You have a window right at your eye level. So when you open your eyes at night, you can have a quick look about where you are, if you are too close to the next boat, etc.
2- Chain roller is right on top of your head. If the anchor drags, you can immediately hear it.

Otherwise full beam master cabin is of course nice.

 

[Eren]

Absolutely agree with you MapisM, whilst other places have fine cruising grounds, it’s not till you get to my neck of the woods that you truly find boating paradise

I spent one summer at Cote D'azur. I liked it but, if I am doing boating, I should be able to go to places where others cannot reach by road. This is very difficult in CdA as the area is too civilized. Even at Porquerolles or Port Cros, anyone who pays 8-10 euros and take a ferry from Hyeres can reach to the same places that I come with my boat by having EUR 50.000-100.000 costs for running that boat. However, in more eastern destination in the Med, like Adriatic, Ionian or Aegean seas, you can anchor at bays, go to restaurants where you can reach only by boat. And furthermore, there are usually quite few boats around you, or none most of the times. Those are the places where I say that "I am so glad that I have a boat". I also like spending a day at seas at CdA and take a dingy to the shore for a restaurant, but I think if I like it 20% like that, I prefer the rest 80% of times to be at less civilized areas.

It has been a bit of topic drift but I believe that these also may be valuable info for the OP.

 

[petem]

I was talking to someone the other day who was raving about san Remo (good cruising grounds, cheap, good food, not dead in the winter, etc). Any comments?

 

[Hurricane]

From my experience of owning a slightly bigger but same vintage Princess (P67) for the last 10 years.

Galley
SWMBO prefers the galley up on the main deck which isn't an option on the boats you are considering but I thought it worth mentioning.
We both like the galley to be in the social part of the boat - our previous boat was a Sealine T51 which also has a "galley up".
The galley fridge on our P67 is the tall fridge freezer which I believe is the same as on the P54.
In fact, this fridge has been the source of lots of problems and, IMO, it consumes far too much power.
In the early days, our fridge had problems with the (two) Waeco DC/AC power supplies and eventually Princess (Dometic) provided the special Danfoss control boxes that fitted directly to the compressors (2) instead of the Waeco power packs.
This year, I am fitting a new domestic Bosch fridge with a dedicated inverter.
My tests on the new fridge indicate that it will consume around half the power pf the old unit.
I guess that would be better insulation but there are some clever electronics fitted.
That said, the extra space that these big fridge/freezers offer makes them well worth having.
Another point to consider - ice - we have an ice maker but it only runs from 240v so we generally make ice and then keep it in the freezer.
Believe me - ice is VERY important in the Med - just imagine a G&T without it!!!
A second fridge is also a very good idea - in this generation of Princess, they fitted a cool box on the flybridge - which also has its problems.
These cool boxes use the Dometic cool box unit - one of these:-
https://www.dometic.com/en-gb/uk/pr...ing-units/dometic-coldmachine-cs-nc15-_-79701
We've had two of these units - the fans pack up within a season - I use cheap computer fans (3 for about 6 quid on ebay) as replacements - the replacements seem to last longer than the Dometic ones!!
The Flybridge coolbox also gobbles up electricity.

Mid Cabin
I completely disagree with Eren (sorry Eren)
The mid cabin would be a huge consideration if I were buying again.
It is quieter (no "slap and tickle" like in the bow cabin) - and bigger - I wouldn't be without ours.
Actuallu, you can still see out of the windows in the mid cabin from the bed.
I can see Eren's point about hearing the anchor slip if you were to sleep in the froward cabin - thats the benefit - but the disadvantage to that point would be that you it would keep you awake as the chain rubs against the roller.
That means you would have to deploy a snubber/bridle anyway which "kind of" defeats Eren's point.
Whilst on the point of anchoring, IMO, all these boats anchoring tackle is too small and if you intend anchoring for any length of time, I would upgrade the chain, anchor and windlass - I have on our P67.

I nearly replied to this thread earlier when the OP mentioned the flybridge table seating.
I didn't realise how big the P54's table is - and I can see his point.
However, our Flybridge table is more like the P58 - we have a couple of wooden folding chairs that stow in the flybridge lockers - this allows us to seat 6 people very comfortably and two extra at a squeeze.
A comment on dining spaces.
All the boats have (potentially) 3 dining areas so I agree with the OP's thoughts.
1 - the flybridge - great at anchor or on warm summer evenings
2 - the inside dinette - usually when the weather is bad but also as a general table
3 - the cockpit - we have a loose fitting folding table which, these days, stays up all the time - it could well have been a fitted table.

Another one to throw in
Have you thought of the older P57 (NickH on these forums has one)
This model has one BIG feature that isn't on the younger boats - the infamous INTERNAL STAIRS to the flybridge.
Our P67 has these stairs and they really are a great feature.
At sea, we ONLY use these stairs.
If you have kids on board, you can close the cockpit patio doors and keep everyone within the boat/flybridge.
Thats just the safety points - then there is the social bit (again SWMBO and the social galley idea) - the galley is located between the three dining areas thus making it just as easy to eat at any of the three locations.
The P57 doesn't have a galley up (like ours) but it does have it located within the main deck thus making it part of the social area.
I suggest that you have a good look at the P57 - or maybe extend to the P67 (in which case, I would be able to comment a lot further)
IIRC The P62 of that vintage didn't have the internal stairs.

Just some comments - I hope that helps

EDIT
Just been thinking - have you considered the P61? - we were very keen on one until we decided to go a bit bigger.
Bothe these older ones (the P57 and the P61) don't have full beam mid cabins but do have the mid cabins and internal stairs.
Although I like the P54, I would prefer these older ones for the Med,