Princess 49

[henryf]

Henry- that is correct , the problem was I had talks about the p49 in August when it was all hush hush, im sure if I was in the 'buying' position now there would be deals on the p49.
my point however is still the same, a second hand 2014 p52 is on the market for £855k, that's still a lot of money for a 50ft boat!!

im not sure why you think the prestige was heavily discounted and what you are implying with that tells you something?....

we all have choices and I certainly like the princess brand but feel they are loosing reality when it comes to the pricing of new boats.

Right. I thought you were comparing eggs with eggs.

I assumed you were talking about buying two readily available boats and comparing their prices like for like. In that case if Princess were standing rigid (which they wouldn't be) and Prestige were discounting (you said you got a good deal) then it would imply Princess were finding sales easier to come by.

Now I know the full picture it makes more sense.

I'm not saying one builder is better, they take different approaches and I've already stated I respect the path taken by the likes of Prestige. Their scale of economy excites me and I'm always interested to see what a volume group brings to the table. In theory if they can find the perfect formula they should clean up.

As for second hand prices. There's a reason we bought our P50 new. Because it was cheaper than some of the used ones on the market

I never will understand used boat pricing. People forget how much they actually paid for their boats and base used prices on full RRP. Brokers hands are tied because they don't own the boats, sometimes prices are asked to bolster new sales, some live in hope of finding a customer who has to have a boat today rather than wait months for a build slot, etc. etc.

Henry

 

[MapisM]

I concur, V drives offer greater layout flexibility than straight shafts, however can be a pain to set up in a production environment versus IPS which is a doddle.

Simple stuff for builder however I suspect IPS will be a poison pill by the time boat reaches say ten years old. One of the huge benefits of an integrated propulsion system is that it captures servicing for life!

I have actually been discussing a drop in V drive propulsion package already set up with stringers to combat simplicity IPS production installation.

Now, that's clever! But it's a setup that remained on the drawing board, I suppose?
Never heard of anything like that actually offered by an engine builder, let alone installed on a boat, which is a shame.

Re. the IPS poison pill, I couldn't agree more - as long as you mean (as I'm sure you do) for the boat owner.
From the builders and yards standpoint, neither are interested in long term reliable solutions, for obvious reasons!

 

[MapisM]

As for second hand prices. There's a reason we bought our P50 new. Because it was cheaper than some of the used ones on the market

Mmm... You mean cheaper than some asking prices of the used ones, surely?

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

Simple stuff for builder however I suspect IPS will be a poison pill by the time boat reaches say ten years old. One of the huge benefits of an integrated propulsion system is that it captures servicing for life!

But IPS is already 10yrs old. I remember seeing it for the first time in a Rodman at LIBS around 2005. Are there any reports from early IPS adopters to the effect that their IPS drives are costing big maintenance bills?

And what about the Zeus system? Is that going to give the same kind of issues?

Not a great fan of the IPS/Zeus concept myself but for better or worse, builders are using it more and more so by the time Mapism buys his next boat, its probably going to be IPS/Zeus driven

 

[MapisM]

Well, coming to think of it, actually I liked pods well before VP even began thinking of the IPS.
In fact, I wouldn't mind a boat like Windermere, for instance.
You can see her (proper) pod in the fourth page.

But IPS, and on a flybridge?
Over.
My.
Dead.
Body.

Oh, and the answer to your first question is definitely yes. :ambivalence:

 

[Anders_P42]

But IPS is already 10yrs old. I remember seeing it for the first time in a Rodman at LIBS around 2005. Are there any reports from early IPS adopters to the effect that their IPS drives are costing big maintenance bills?

I wonder how many owners would report high bills on forums, knowing they'll want to sell on in the future?

It would be nice to have a proper fact file on some IPS service costs, ie is it true the pods come out after five years for an overhaul? I read this on another forum but when I questioned Volvo at SIBS they denied all knowledge of such a requirement. If it's true you'd want to negotiate some of that cost when buying a four year old boat...

 

[gjgm]

I wonder how many owners would report high bills on forums, knowing they'll want to sell on in the future?

It would be nice to have a proper fact file on some IPS service costs, ie is it true the pods come out after five years for an overhaul? I read this on another forum but when I questioned Volvo at SIBS they denied all knowledge of such a requirement. If it's true you'd want to negotiate some of that cost when buying a four year old boat...

Think of the horror felt over out drives and they have only been around for 50,70,100 years or whatever.
Anecdotal for sure but when I asked a VP guy,who in the circumstance was free to say anything,he said the only issues he had come across with pods was people running them aground, which did not do them a lot of good.
Perhaps it just needs another generation of boat owners who don't think the only way to propel a boat is to have a steel bar running through the floor?

 

[Bajansailor]

Well, coming to think of it, actually I liked pods well before VP even began thinking of the IPS.
In fact, I wouldn't mind a boat like Windermere, for instance.
You can see her (proper) pod in the fourth page.

But IPS, and on a flybridge?
Over.
My.
Dead.
Body.

Oh, and the answer to your first question is definitely yes. :ambivalence:

There are so many excellent features on Windermere - I especially like how the fin stabilisers are well protected by the bilge keels.
And the watertight subdivision, with proper watertight doors between the compartments.

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

Well, coming to think of it, actually I liked pods well before VP even began thinking of the IPS.
In fact, I wouldn't mind a boat like Windermere, for instance.

Very nice, that is a proper boat. Are Cape Horn boats manufactured any longer?

 

[MapisM]

Not afaik.
After Sever sold the company, there were rumors of a new production in Croatia, but to my knowledge, Windermere is still holding the title of last CH ever built.

PS: with apologies for the drift - Princess 49 and Cape Horn 65, now that's an off topic, if I've ever seen one!

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

Re. the IPS poison pill, I couldn't agree more

It seems like IPS is poisonous for sharks too

http://www.keysnet.com/2016/02/02/506886_is-this-the-ultimate-fish-story.html?rh=1

(also posted in the Lounge)

 

[username]

Sorry to resurrect this one but does anyone know the range of the Princess 49? It looks pretty rapid but only has 1500L of fuel. Does not seem a lot for a 50ft boat?

 

[rafiki_]

Regarding the range, have you asked Princess?

 

[username]

No I have been looking around at the reviews and information published online today. I will ask them tomorrow but I thought I would pose the question just in case someone had already asked.

 

[Whitelighter]

Does seem quite light but assuming 1nmpg range is going to be 280nm with a sensible reserve

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

Sorry to resurrect this one but does anyone know the range of the Princess 49? It looks pretty rapid but only has 1500L of fuel. Does not seem a lot for a 50ft boat?

No its not a lot. You would expect a typical shaftdrive 50ft flybridge boat to carry around 2000L of fuel. I guess Princess are reckoning on the IPS drives giving an improvement in fuel economy over shaftdrives but the problem with that is that experience so far with IPS powered flybridge boats (as opposed to sports cruisers) tends to suggest that they don't give any significant fuel consumption advantages over shaftdrive powered flybridge boats. So to pluck a conservative figure out of the air, I would guess that the P49 would give about 0.8nmpg at 20-25kts which would give it a range of only around 230nm with a 10% reserve

However having said that the proof of the pudding will be in the testing and it may well be that Princess have designed a hull which does take advantage of IPS drives, unlike other builders, and it could be that the P49 gets close to 1nmpg which would give a range closer to a more acceptable 300nm. Also the boat is relatively light at under 20t which may be as a result of Princess' new production methods and which will also help fuel consumption. I guess we'll know when MBY get around to testing it

 

[username]

Does seem quite light but assuming 1nmpg range is going to be 280nm with a sensible reserve

One would hope it is that sort of number. I have not seen one yet but on paper it is a pretty impressive boat. I noticed the MC5 and Prestige 500 both have 1300L of fuel and a range of 250/260. They both use a smaller engine and are quite a lot lighter. I would not think Princess would produce something this size with a range at cruising speed much less than 260.

More importantly am I the only person that gets a pop up for Crackers every time they use this site on an ipad?! Its irritating me and making me want to get the cheese out all at once!!

 

[Nigelpickin]

One would hope it is that sort of number. I have not seen one yet but on paper it is a pretty impressive boat. I noticed the MC5 and Prestige 500 both have 1300L of fuel and a range of 250/260. They both use a smaller engine and are quite a lot lighter. I would not think Princess would produce something this size with a range at cruising speed much less than 260.

More importantly am I the only person that gets a pop up for Crackers every time they use this site on an ipad?! Its irritating me and making me want to get the cheese out all at once!!

Yup - the tanks are small on the prestige 500, our safe cruising range at 20kts is 220nm. We do try to run at a 100lph rate when we cruise 'fast' so on a good day we can assume that we could get 260nm before we are running on fumes.

We do however, scrubbed and half loaded, get 1mpg without too much trouble, of course we have no seats or helm on our roof

We are now doing loads more miles at 8kts and our average burn per mile over the last 1000nm is now around 2.8lpm.

The master cabin and the need to keep weight down is what's doing the tanks in I'm afraid....something has to give.

 

[Whitelighter]

2.8l/NM is pretty good.

As a comparison my old tub (24T ish) on conventional shafts uses 3.5l/nm.
That's with dirty bum/props, so I expect with totally clean underwater gear I reckon maybe 3.25 is possible but never under 3.

 

[username]

Yup - the tanks are small on the prestige 500, our safe cruising range at 20kts is 220nm. We do try to run at a 100lph rate when we cruise 'fast' so on a good day we can assume that we could get 260nm before we are running on fumes.

We do however, scrubbed and half loaded, get 1mpg without too much trouble, of course we have no seats or helm on our roof

We are now doing loads more miles at 8kts and our average burn per mile over the last 1000nm is now around 2.8lpm.

The master cabin and the need to keep weight down is what's doing the tanks in I'm afraid....something has to give.

On the basis of this I would think the Princess is not going to have the real world range I am hoping for then! It is heavier with bigger engines!!