Princes 45 with Cat Engines, any good ?

[D and G]

Hi all,
We are considering buying a Princes 45, it is powered by 2 x Cat Diesel V8's putting out 425bhp, we are waiting for the broker to tell us the exact model number, but if any cat specialist could tell us, are these good engines?, I know from my plant fitting days the plane engines are great, last very well and very reliable, but I have no knowledge of their marine diesels, also what is the general feeling on the Princes brand of boats, are there any known problems to look out for, or just the normal boat hassles. It is a 1991 boat, but has been used as more of a holiday home as the engines only have 190 hours on them, while we are on the subject what kind of hours can you expect to get out of the Cat engines if well maintained before a reuild will be in order? Any advise would be great.
Thanks in advance
D & G

 

[ari]

Terrific boat, but with on average 10 hours use a year I'd be very concerned about under use.

I suspect Cat diesel engines are probably a lot more stressed than plant engines as it's all about power to weight ratio with boats.

It'll go well with those engines in mind, if everything is running properly I'd expect a top speed of comfortably over 30 knots.

I guess a thorough engine survey prior to purchase is your best bet.

 

[D and G]

Thanks for the input Ari, you are spot on, they claim a top speed of 31 knots and a cruising speed of 20 knots. We will get a very detailed survey done so should not get our fingers burnt and will put a lot more hours on them motors if we buy her

 

[ari]

Just make sure the surveyor focuses on the engines. Unless she's been abused or neglected it's unlikely you'll find a lot wrong with the boat, they're very solid. The engines are where the big bills potentially lurk and some surveyors give them no more of a cursory once over, feeling that the structure of the boat is their priority.

Maybe even consider a seperate specific engine survey.

There were a few issues with these V8 Cat 3208TA's going pop in the very early days (late eighties early nineties). Normally it wouldn't be a concern by now as it'd have happened if it were going to, but with such low hours it's unlikely, but not completely impossible, that the issue has been stored up.

 

[ari]

Incidentally, is she dinette or third cabin layout?

 

[capsco]

This would be the one allegedly sold on e bay a couple of weeks ago,
Lying Brighton.

 

[D and G]

Hi again,
No its for sale by a broker on Hayling Island, from memory I think they trade under the boatshed banner. The story he told me was that it has been used as a holiday home and it was trucked back to the UK to save putting more hours on the engine, but from what the very helpfull peeps on here tell me, I think a run would have done them good, the sceptic in me does tend to think was it brought back to blighty on a truck because the motors may need some TLC?, but if it was used as a holiday home may be they did not have the experience to sale her back to the uk. do a boatshed search on google and then search Princes 45 on their site, its sitting out of the water on hard standing and has been for a while, so from what little I know, I suspect this would not be a good thing to get a true picture of the moisture content of the hull for osmosis?, but I have said I am on a very steep learning curve
Cheers
D & G

 

[ari]

Extraordinarily unlikely (but not impossible) that it would have osmosis as it came in the era after Princess switched to isophthalic resins. Anything post about 87 should be fine.

Worth a check of course, but I wouldn't worry about that side of things, it's the engines that are the potential issue.

What a shame she wasn't sailed up. If she had been you'd have more confidence.

 

[ari]

Hi again,
No its for sale by a broker on Hayling Island, from memory I think they trade under the boatshed banner.

Had a quick look on Boatshed but the only one I could see on the site was a 1988 boat priced at a rather ferocious £130,000!!

 

[Tranona]

There are about 25 of this model/age range listed on Yachtworld.com (Brokerage listing and a must for any serious buyer).

I have looked at the broker details of the boat you are considering. It is either the bargain of the year or the opposite! It is arguably the highest spec boat of its type with the biggest engines - but is priced at the lower end of the range. Offers invited on £109k when others with the more common Volvo engines are asking £130k. Minimal use, sitting in the sun in the Med (guessing a bit here) and shipped back to the UK to be sold rings alarm bells.

However, a lot of boat and good spec so worth looking at with a very experienced surveyor. Unlikely to be much wrong with the basic structure, but 75%+ of the cost of these boats is in machinery, equipment and fittings - all nearly 20 years old. For the engines, the agent is Finnings in the UK and they will have supplied the engines new so they are the obvious people to ask for a condition survey. Remember it is not the basic engine that is a problem but fuel, cooling, electronics, turbos and so on which have never really been used in 170 hours, but sitting unused in a salt laden environment.

 

[oldgit]

House boat again perhaps.

Would anybody like to enlighten us and the prospective purchaser as to the fuel consumption of this at 20 knots...
30-40-50 +gallons per hour perhaps ?

 

[aquapower]

You can tell a lot about engines by getting a couple of oil sample kits from finning and having the oils analysed.
Also check the anodes in all the coolers as these need changing reguarly if boat is in salt water whether engines run or not.

 

[ari]

Would anybody like to enlighten us and the prospective purchaser as to the fuel consumption of this at 20 knots...
30-40-50 +gallons per hour perhaps ?

About 20-25gph total (ie both engines, not each).

 

[ari]

You can tell a lot about engines by getting a couple of oil sample kits from finning and having the oils analysed.
Also check the anodes in all the coolers as these need changing reguarly if boat is in salt water whether engines run or not.

Check when it was last serviced though, relative to engine hours. Even if it were serviced six months ago, if it's only done 2 hours since (as it likely from the sounds of it) then they won't give you an accurate idea.

 

[ari]

There are about 25 of this model/age range listed on Yachtworld.com (Brokerage listing and a must for any serious buyer).

I have looked at the broker details of the boat you are considering. It is either the bargain of the year or the opposite! It is arguably the highest spec boat of its type with the biggest engines - but is priced at the lower end of the range. Offers invited on £109k when others with the more common Volvo engines are asking £130k. Minimal use, sitting in the sun in the Med (guessing a bit here) and shipped back to the UK to be sold rings alarm bells.

.

£130K for a P45 of this era is, I'd have thought, somewhat optimistic.

£109K and selling for circa £100K feels more realistic to me, assuming the boat in good mechanical and cosmetic condition.

 

[Tranona]

May well be the case - I am only reporting what the listings are. Remember many of the boats for sale are in the Med and may be priced in Euros. Also this type of boat tends to be cheaper in the UK because many buyers want them in the Med. Easily eat up £10k getting the boat there!

To me, rather telling that the boat was in the Med and now in Hayling Island - hardly a location to get the dream juices flowing!

Without knowing all the details I think I would be prepared for £20-30k to get a boat with this history up to speed.

 

[capsco]

Hi again,
No its for sale by a broker on Hayling Island, from memory I think they trade under the boatshed banner. The story he told me was that it has been used as a holiday home and it was trucked back to the UK to save putting more hours on the engine, but from what the very helpfull peeps on here tell me, I think a run would have done them good, the sceptic in me does tend to think was it brought back to blighty on a truck because the motors may need some TLC?, but if it was used as a holiday home may be they did not have the experience to sale her back to the uk. do a boatshed search on google and then search Princes 45 on their site, its sitting out of the water on hard standing and has been for a while, so from what little I know, I suspect this would not be a good thing to get a true picture of the moisture content of the hull for osmosis?, but I have said I am on a very steep learning curve
Cheers
D & G

Sorry quoted wrong location, but it is the same boat.

 

[Sundays_Child]

My understanding, with all things being equal, is that the 425/435hp versions of the 3208TA engines are less reliable than the 375 versions. Then again, they're 10,400cc so 400+ hp isn't excessive.

I have two 3208TA 375s and I really like them, though they were a bit scary at first!

As per advice above, get an engine surveyor to take a look.

 

[Renegade_Master]

Given the lack of use on these engines I would go for an engine oil analysis

 

[thefatlady]

Had a boat with 435hp 3208s. They are very robust and should give no trouble, but as others have said, get them checked.

There is one problem I know about, and that may not affect the 425hp version. The water inlet and outlet flanges on the intercooler were made of aluminium and rotted. If they were allowed to fail, salt water got into the engine and wrecked it. They changed to bronze flanges which became standard in 1999 and I would expect earlier boats to have had them changed by now. Look for black blow marks on the flange around the pipe. Scraping any paint away will show the colour of the flange and whether it has been changed.