Price vs Value of used Moody yachts

[AndrewB]

Wasn't there a scandal about Moody quality of build back in 1994? As I recall it, a nearly new Moody 31 was lost in the Thames Estuary as a result of rudder failure. The owner sued Marine Projects (Moody builders) citing in evidence twenty or so other cases of rudder failure in Moodies that he had tracked down. Marine Projects defended their position by arguing they were building to Lloyds A1 standard (forerunner of RCD). The case was settled "out of court".

I remember reading about this in the French mag "Voile" which reported it with glee, and it was also reported in the US mag "Cruising World". Not a dickie-bird in YM or the rest of the other UK yachting press which presumably could not risk offending a major advertiser. However PBO marginally broke ranks by publishing a totally unreadable article in the April 1996 edition by guru Tony Marchaj concerning the Lloyds A1 assumptions about rudder stresses.

 

[thecommander]

What are users opinions on the Moody 27?

Starting price of around £14k to £18k depending on condition. Prices seem slightly overpriced, I think? Thought I'm not sure how much those prices have been inflated by the brokers/sellers?

Look like an excellent cabin layout with good headroom.

Bilge or fin keel options. Tiller steering. Modern looks for an 80s boat.

 

[Tranona]

Baby of the range. Not a big seller so relatively few about. Asking prices reflect the "Moody Premium" which is the subject of this thread. Whether it is worth paying is up to you!

 

[wully1]

Moodys have a much better build quality than AWBs hence the higher prices, HRs are the same.

Hmmmmm..

My 1984 and 1986 Beneteaus were pretty well built, although not at all well finished in the back of lockers etc. Which made them really easy to work on. My 1990 Moody is as well built but far better finished and as a consequence,a pain in the hoop to work on.
On balance I feel the Moody is better fitted out hence more expensive.
Any recent AWB I've looked at by comparison is cheap and flimsy feeling and looks thrown together although probably ' properly' engineered ( by an accountant?) At Boot the Beneteau boats were shocking with smeared sealant from the thin teak decks spattered over the hulls. The Jeaneaus had unfinished bits of wood with messily fitted screws behind the saloon seating..
I could afford a new AWB but would never buy one. If changing I'd be looking at older AWB's in good ( non charter nick) and nothing beyond mid '90's

Doubt I'll be changing!

 

[Sticky Fingers]

... well built, although not at all well finished in the back of lockers etc. Which made them really easy to work on. My 1990 Moody is as well built but far better finished and as a consequence,a pain in the hoop to work on.
On balance I feel the Moody is better fitted out hence more expensive....

Well. That's probably the thing I'm trying to get to here. Is it actually true? Or just a perception? If is IS true then price and embedded value align. If not, it's style over substance.

 

[BurnitBlue]

I have only owned HR and Moody yachts plus a Mariaholm International Folkboat. I also think the fit out is superior to the modern AWBs I have been aboard. In fact last year I alerted three owners of Bavaria boats that were hauled out in Preveza where the quite substantial supports indented the hulls by quite a lot. I was not being "nosey" or interfering, just intrigued. Two of the boats proved to have split hulls which according to the yard occurred during transport to or from the launching bay. I kid you not. They blamed the lack of bulkheads in areas known to be chocked up. Should the designer take haul out position into consideration. Yes, in my and the boatyards opinion, if the hulls are so flimsy then reinforcement should be designed into the area where chocks are to be placed.

I had no complaints with the HR but the Moody although built to a good standard is not easy to sail single handed. (Moody 346 sheet winch position). I also echo the previous remark that the good quality fitting out was (is) a pain when it was required to access (for instance the chain plates. It seemed a crime to disturb such joinery.

There is no premium for the Moody or HR "name" You pay for quality.

Edit. Forgot I also owned a Prout Catamaran for six years

 

[jimi]

I have only owned HR and Moody yachts plus a Mariaholm International Folkboat. I also think the fit out is superior to the modern AWBs I have been aboard. In fact last year I alerted three owners of Bavaria boats that were hauled out in Preveza where the quite substantial supports indented the hulls by quite a lot. I was not being "nosey" or interfering, just intrigued. Two of the boats proved to have split hulls which according to the yard occurred during transport to or from the launching bay. I kid you not. They blamed the lack of bulkheads in areas known to be chocked up. Should the designer take haul out position into consideration. Yes, in my and the boatyards opinion, if the hulls are so flimsy then reinforcement should be designed into the area where chocks are to be placed.

I had no complaints with the HR but the Moody although built to a good standard is not easy to sail single handed. (Moody 346 sheet winch position). I also echo the previous remark that the good quality fitting out was (is) a pain when it was required to access (for instance the chain plates. It seemed a crime to disturb such joinery.

There is no premium for the Moody or HR "name" You pay for quality.

Edit. Forgot I also owned a Prout Catamaran for six years

I find the Moody S38 easy to single hand, I do have the german mainsheet system going back to the spinnaker winches which helps a lot.

 

[BurnitBlue]

I find the Moody S38 easy to single hand, I do have the german mainsheet system going back to the spinnaker winches which helps a lot.

Good choice. A 38 foot Moody is the stuff of dreams. I chose the Moody 346 because I would rather own a 34 foot Moody than 40 foot Bavaria. Same price. BTW I mention Bavaria only because I am trying to be fair to other AWB boats that at least try to strive for quality without an eye on the price.

 

[Otter]

You have to be of a certain age to think that Moody is better quality, it may well be but in 10 years time how many will have heard of anything other than Ben/Jen/Bav and just think that Moody is one of the old makes of boat?

 

[dslittle]

Well I've been looking at a few Moodys or should that be Moodies. Surprised at the strong prices asked for 20 year old used examples, compared to Ben/Jen/Bav of similar size/vintage. Is it down to a strong demand coupled with a rarity factor? Or does it reflect the original cost of them? Or is it a sort of Hallberg Rassy effect? Or misguided pricing and they sell for half the asking price... ? Or have I missed some nugget.

Piece of string I know. Views welcome...

Have just very seriously considered changing my Ben/Jen/Bav for an Island Packet. We have the money and saw the boat.

After quite a bit of deliberation, we have decided that we are very happy with our boat (we have equipped her exactly as we wanted for long distance cruising and know her inside out). Our 'only' long passage will be the Biscay and any others that we choose. I fully understand he difference in build quality etc BUT my wife has commented that 'we have the nicer boat'...

Our boat is ideal for us. It would not be ideal for everyone else. It is only 'of value' to someone who wants to live aboard or do extensive passages. Very similar boats to mine can be bought for less than I would want (but would then cost £30-40K to bring up to my spec). I know that I will never recoup that (who needs AirCon in the UK???).

I do not need to sell my boat nor am I desperate to upgrade. Others, in different circumstances, will take whatever they can get and will deflate the price of mine, but that is the economics of the free market. Had I been changing cars, I would have part exchanged mine but in the marine environment that is not a financially feasible option. The end result is that we will keep our boat until we stop doing what we are doing by which time depreciation will have levelled out.

The end result is that we have saved our money and kept something that, for our personal needs, is not very different.

Any boat is only worth what it costs the final purchaser.

OK flak jacket on!!!

 

[jonjo]

Good choice. A 38 foot Moody is the stuff of dreams. I chose the Moody 346 because I would rather own a 34 foot Moody than 40 foot Bavaria. Same price. BTW I mention Bavaria only because I am trying to be fair to other AWB boats that at least try to strive for quality without an eye on the price.

What makes a Bavaria exceptionally bad in relation to a Moody or the major AWB brands?

 

[Sticky Fingers]

I think it was a poke at the impression that Bavaria is engineered down to a price and therefore somehow is 'lower' quality. Not my experience.

 

[jordanbasset]

I think it was a poke at the impression that Bavaria is engineered down to a price and therefore somehow is 'lower' quality. Not my experience.

Not my experience either. A couple of the comments on here do make me laugh, it would be equivalent to argueing that Hallberg Rassy boats are well known for chronic problems of delamination which the company turn a blind eye to and refuse to address. Although thinking about it that is not a fair comparison as there is a lot of evidence for the Hallberg Rassy delamination problems as opposed to the alleged build quality issues of Bavaria.
Having said that I am sure Halberg Rassy for the most part are okay boats, especially if you just want it for a bit of inshore coastal sailing in benign conditions, just not upto Bavaria's robust build standards

 

[GrahamM376]

You have to be of a certain age to think that Moody is better quality, it may well be but in 10 years time how many will have heard of anything other than Ben/Jen/Bav and just think that Moody is one of the old makes of boat?

One thing that comes to mind is that a Moody 376 cost £68,195 including VAT in 1989 and they're selling today, 27 years later, for up to £55,000. Most modern AWBs are depreciating far more in a shorter time.

Same applies to many older boats, Centaurs and the like are still selling for more than they cost new 40 years ago.

 

[Sticky Fingers]

Is that selling? Or asking price? I can see the asking prices seem strong.

 

[GrahamM376]

Is that selling? Or asking price? I can see the asking prices seem strong.

Selling privately at that price in some cases but I've also seen quite a few selling for under £50,000 through brokers. Much depends on condition and level/age of equipment.

It's not just Moody boats which have held their prices, look at more heavily built pre-mass production Jeanneau, Bavs etc. they still have a good following.

 

[VO5]

When we lived aboard for almost eight years, cruising the Caribbean and USA, our final boat of choice was a 1996 Dixon designed Moody 38.

Excellent sea boat.

Skeg or part skeg hung rudders, big solid keels attached to a decent stub, were all high on our priority list when crossing oceans or in between the reefs.

Stand in a boat yard next to an AWB and a Moody (or a Malo/Rassy) and look at the different rudder and keel design then you will see why some make the choice.

After a tough 19hr trip to Barbados from St Lucia beating the wrong way into the Atlantic swell, the skipper of a 45ft AWB we sailed in company with, and who we totally out sailed and left a considerable distance in our wake in the pretty awful conditions, described our M38 as "a strong, kick ass British boat."
She was.

:encouragement:

 

[Otter]

One thing that comes to mind is that a Moody 376 cost £68,195 including VAT in 1989 and they're selling today, 27 years later, for up to £55,000. Most modern AWBs are depreciating far more in a shorter time.

Same applies to many older boats, Centaurs and the like are still selling for more than they cost new 40 years ago.

No they're not! 40 years ago they cost about £35,000 equivalent new, they've depreciated down to about £8k on average selling. That depreciation is hidden by the fact that the number of pound notes is roughly the same, but boy were those pounds worth more 40 years ago! What's happened in the last ten years is we've had an era of incredibly stable and low inflation so the depreciation is more visible, but in reality not much different to all the previous decades.

My CW cost the first owner £50,000 40 years ago - a third of mil equivalent. It's probably worth £47k ish now but the depreciation has been colossal in anything other than the meaningless number of pounds measure.

 

[GrahamM376]

No they're not! 40 years ago they cost about £35,000 equivalent new, they've depreciated down to about £8k on average selling. That depreciation is hidden by the fact that the number of pound notes is roughly the same, but boy were those pounds worth more 40 years ago! What's happened in the last ten years is we've had an era of incredibly stable and low inflation so the depreciation is more visible, but in reality not much different to all the previous decades.

My CW cost the first owner £50,000 40 years ago - a third of mil equivalent. It's probably worth £47k ish now but the depreciation has been colossal in anything other than the meaningless number of pounds measure.

But what matters is how much it costs and how much it will sell for in £ or € after a few years. When sell anything (except items purchased as an investment) we don't consider how much the pound has depreciated since purchase so why do it with a boat?

 

[Otter]

Really? So if you bought a boat for £20k and ten years later you'd be happier if it sold for £20k with ten years of 8% inflation; than if it sold for £15k after 10 years of 1% inflation? The number of pounds is pure emotion, the relative value of those pounds is important.

Academic though, I measure value of the boat by the enjoyment it brings. But let's not confuse buying and selling for the same price as being anything other than a meaningless coincidence.