Previously sunk boat should we buy?

[Sal+Al]

Hi There,

We are still looking for our first boat, we saw a one at the weekend that was being rebuilt by a boat yard. When asking why it was being rebuilt we were told it was because it has sunk. Not a reply i was anticipating. Not being deterred we took a look and it was beautiful, even tho it was little more than a shell that was having loads of work done on it. New electrics, the hull looks brand new, the yard is an osmosis specialist so thats all done. New upholstery is on order, and new rigging but the old sails will be cleaned, also the engine has been reconditioned and is gleeming. The wood doesnt even look damaged, heads are clean and you couldnt tell it has been under the water.

It seems the boat was sunk because of a tap on the engine failed so it filled up and sank. The boat has had lots of work done by the boat yard who brought it off the insurance company and are doing it up in between their other work to keep their staff busy.

What do you have to consider if we were to think about buying a boat such as this? Is it a really tricky prospect?

The yard will finish the boat and it will be sea trialled etc to ensure it is seaworthy and everything is working as it should, and we were offered a 3 month warrenty for any little niggles that may emerge. We can also moor it in the marina there for a reasonable cost so we can go back if any problems arise.

As the boat yard are going to be the sellers there is no broker involved so would we have to employ our own to ensure the paperwork is ok?

Any advice on this matter will be gratefully received.

Cheers

 

[Dipper]

Some friends of mine have owned four keel boats of which two had previously sunk (28 ft and 34 ft). They didn't have any problems with either of them.

Sounds like you are looking at a completely overhauled boat.

 

[fireball]

For the easy bit - you don't need a broker ...
Do a search on here to find out what paperwork should be included - ideally it will have original VAT invoice - but if the yard is VAT registered then you will be charged VAT on the boat anyway - and this is then your "proof that VAT has been paid" ...

What you do need is a surveyor - he will go over the boat and check that the boat isn't about to fall appart... find your own surveyor - don't use one recommended by the yard - not to say the report will be different - but it means the survey will be 100% independant!
You may want a marine engineer to test run the engine (the surveyor won't do this) - but a recon engine can be just as good as a new one.

 

[Gordonmc]

Having given a hand to a friend repair his boat which sank I would say there is no reason to walk away. In many respects his boat is better than when it went submarine.
One suprise, however, was the damage to wiring in a comparitively short dunk. Assuming the boat in question has been completely rewired, of course, no problem.

 

[FullCircle]

We recovered my Grandads boat from the bottom of the Thames 3 times...

More recently, a forumites boat went down on her mooring, and was raised and rebuilt. She is an absolute credit to her owner now, and was surveyed after rebuild, and valued higher than similar boats due to the rework done to a 25 year old boat.

Get a demon surveyor onto the job.

 

[Searush]

It is rare but not unknown for boats to sink at their moorings & be refurbished successfully. I know of one example near where I sail & there will be others I don't know of.

As others have said the biggest issue is the wiring & electronics. 3 months warranty will give you time to spot niggles due to work not finished off by the yard (provided it isn't Oct-Jan in storage!) but I would ask for a 12 months warranty extension for any possible long-term issues due to unseen damage especially in the electrics and maybe engine. You may not get it, but it is worth asking. If you do get a surveyor, make sure he knows its history & express your concerns about any potential long term problems.

I would expect the cost to reflect its history but the condition to appear above average (ie a bargain!). It can also offer a good "throw-away" line when people praise your boat - bound to start up a conversation & make you new friends. Or you may wish to keep it's history quiet to protect its future resale value.

 

[Spyro]

Not wishing to appear too sceptical but you say "the hull looks brand new, the yard is an osmosis specialist so thats all done" The hull would look brand new but that is an expensive job (materials) if the hull had nothing wrong with it. Are you sure it didn't have a large hole in the side or anywhere else for that matter. If the boat is stripped out at the moment it would be a good time to have a look for any evidence of repairs inside.
Just curious, what boat is it?

 

[steve28]

when we bought our insurance write off we had to have a full survey before we could get insurance, not sure if was a diffrent level of inspection but it passed with only a few to doos.

Steve

 

[oldsaltoz]

Have a close inspection and moisture readings taken on any cored sections, the extra pressure applied during a sinking often allows moisture to enter cored areas and the damage will go undetected till damage is evident, so get it checked.

 

[Gunfleet]

Dead right. Plywood bulkheads are vulnerable to moisture ingress and can take years for it all to disperse. Will this leave the ply weakened? Also though the engine may look all right has it been stripped? Washed? There are loads of apertures into the bellhousing on a Yanmar, for example, which will allow salt water in to wreck the drive plate with rust. You can't see it happening but it's there.

ps Guess how I know that?

 

[PaulR]

our hunter delta sank on her mooring on 16th october 1987 (was that storm!) and was lifted a day or so later by divers - hull and rig undamaged - inboard outboard repaired at very modest cost but all electrics and all uphostery and lining ruined - cost to refit at yard (foxs ipswich ) almost identical to sum insured and insurers gave us the option to take the sum insured and leave them the salvage or have her refitted - swmbo said she wouldn't feel the same about her knowing she had sunk so money taken - interesting thing is salvage was sold to member of our club (orwell yacht club at the time) for slightly over 50% of her insured value and he refitted and last I knew she was still going strong - conclusion - refit could if done properly bring a boat up to as new and if no structural damage could be great buy ,

haven't seen our old boat for some time but imagine she is still out there somewhere

 

[Scotty_Tradewind]

I suspect one area which could give concern in time, will be where the end grain of ply and veneer have soaked up moisture. This may take weeks or months to show where surfaces may 'blow' and discolouration could be noticed. Also lamins can gradually seperate if moisture is deeply absorbed.
If the drying process was slow and complete before refinishing then there may be no problems.

 

[Alcyone]

I think I'd agree with most here. I'd want a surveyor, but I certain;y would not reject it out of hand.

Couple of points that might have issues, resale value and insurance. You might have a little more difficulty when you come to sell, with people as 'uneasy' as you are about it. I'd also want to make sure my insurers didn't want to start hiking my premiums for whatever reason with a repaired sunken boat.

 

[yoda]

In addition to all the advice given you may get some gems by declaring the make of boat. A short dunking all over may have done less harm than years of high bilge levels allowing end grain to become waterlogged. A good surveyor looking at the boat raw and following the final fitting out would provide you with far more information than a standard survey. Insurance companies have never asked me if the boat had sunk at any time.......

 

[savageseadog]

No reason to walk away as long as it's done up well and the yard is sound. I would be looking for a longer warranty myself, if the boat's OK they shouldn't have an issue but make sure it covers everything. One or two caveats, how well established is the yard, have they the resources and intent to back the warranty? I can think of one or two operators that I wouldn't trust as far as I could throw them so beware.

 

[Alcyone]

In addition to all the advice given you may get some gems by declaring the make of boat. A short dunking all over may have done less harm than years of high bilge levels allowing end grain to become waterlogged. A good surveyor looking at the boat raw and following the final fitting out would provide you with far more information than a standard survey. Insurance companies have never asked me if the boat had sunk at any time.......

Agreed, but there may be small print asking you to declare if the boat has been in an accident at any time/been damaged, and failure to declare that it had, at one time, sunk might cause problems.

 

[Avocet]

Avocet had (we were told!) sunk twice (?!) before we bought her. We didn't pay much and took the risk. A lot depends on the type of boat. Avocet is a very old-fashioned boat with no fancy hollow sections filled with balsa or similar materials - everything is just solid fibreglass. If I were thinking about a boat with hollow sections, I'd be a bit more circumspect, I think - certainly worth mentioning to a surveyor.

Also someone already mentioned plywood internals. That's a good point. Avocet was subsequently stripped and re-fitted by the previous owner.

The engine was NOT rebuilt, but wasn't running when she went down. It was drained and flushed a few times and has survived remarkably well - still in working order today, in fact. That said, the starter and alternator both needed to be replaced.

All wiring terminals were green and furry. Avocet is a simple boat with few wires, so I just replaced the lot!

Obviously upholstery will be cream-crackered.

You'll be able to spot any instruments and equipment easily enough - it shoudl all be replaced.

I certainly wouldn't hesitate to buy another boat that had paid a visit to Davey Jones' locker, but it would have to be "worth my while" as far as price went - I think it's a buyers' market just now and there will be plenty of similar boats that haven't sunk if you'd prefer one!