Premier Marinas for sale

Angele said:
Actually, for MDL the price for paying by 15 Jan is 6.2% less than the monthly instalment rate. And, if you reckon that the monthly direct debit is, on average, equivalent to 6 months credit period from 31 March (or 8.5 months from 15 Jan) then the 6.2% "discount" equates to an APR of around 8.75%.
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Yes that does seem high. I've just had a look at my contract and the comparable stats for Premier are a roughly similar 5% discount for an annual contract as against paying by monthly installments and a further 3% discount for paying two calendar months before the commencement date (which I think can be anytime one likes). 3% for two months equates to a c.19.5% annual rate, which seems incredibly high! I wonder what that's all about, saved admin costs?
 
Never underestimate the capacity for business to behave in response to the bank rather than the market. Get the money in NOW is as likely to be a bank demand in return for continuing support as it is to be about the laudable market rationale of locking in custom at the earliest opportunity.
 
mainsail1 said:
Resolution said:
Are you trying to describe the current ownership (by a property investment fund) or to predict what might happen in the future? Or have you just been reading too much of the Daily Mail?[/QUOTE

Bitter experience and the Daily Mail.
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The Daily Wail is not always 100% accurate in these sort of matters. Furthermore I would suggest that as customers of Premier our experience under present ownership has been pretty satisfactory. Certainly for those of us up at Swanwick they have proved effective managers of a good marina. Not cheap, but fair value for money, IMHO.

Back to the beginning - the story I was told of how Blackrock became involved is that, back in the boom days of ?2003? they were managing an open-ended investment property fund and were labouring under a deluge of new money being put into the fund. Desperate to find good investment property assets, they decided to add some marinas to their portfolio of other types of properties. The previous owners of Premier were approached and a purchase price offered that was simply too good to refuse. So it was a cash purchase, no funny gearing, no equity partners with carried interests, just a straightforward simple commercial deal. It's what hacks at the tabloids hate - normal capitalism.
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Resolution said:
mainsail1 said:
The Daily Wail is not always 100% accurate in these sort of matters. Furthermore I would suggest that as customers of Premier our experience under present ownership has been pretty satisfactory. Certainly for those of us up at Swanwick they have proved effective managers of a good marina. Not cheap, but fair value for money, IMHO.

Back to the beginning - the story I was told of how Blackrock became involved is that, back in the boom days of ?2003? they were managing an open-ended investment property fund and were labouring under a deluge of new money being put into the fund. Desperate to find good investment property assets, they decided to add some marinas to their portfolio of other types of properties. The previous owners of Premier were approached and a purchase price offered that was simply too good to refuse. So it was a cash purchase, no funny gearing, no equity partners with carried interests, just a straightforward simple commercial deal. It's what hacks at the tabloids hate - normal capitalism.
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Oh I see what you mean. No I was not commenting on what has gone on in the past. When I saw the asking price and the present annual profit, I expect the future to be the scenario I put forward.
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dom said:
I wonder what that's all about, saved admin costs?
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No, I think it is a psychological game. We all love a "bargain" (cough, cough) so a time limited discount is something we can convince ourselves is a saving.

The renewal notice lands on your doormat at a time of year when few of us have the time/inclination to shop around. Come the New Year we find we only have a couple of weeks until we lose the opportunity of the 3% discount, so we go for the easy option of renewing, believing that we have saved ourselves 3%.
 
OceanSprint said:
Sorry to be a dense northerner - but up here many marinas are run by the local Council. is that not the case 'daan south? Are there any Council-run marinas?
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Darn Sarf. :encouragement: Anyway, you are talking of what happens in the Socialist state of Scotland. Helped by subsidies from England which in turn means that English authorities dont have the spare cash. Its all gone north.

What has tended to happen down here is that redundant docks have been sold off on a deal that means the developer builds and operates a small marina as the price he pays for filling in the rest and flogging off as housing. Then in many cases the marina bit is sold off and goes bust.
 
Angele said:
No, I think it is a psychological game. We all love a "bargain" (cough, cough) so a time limited discount is something we can convince ourselves is a saving.

The renewal notice lands on your doormat at a time of year when few of us have the time/inclination to shop around. Come the New Year we find we only have a couple of weeks until we lose the opportunity of the 3% discount, so we go for the easy option of renewing, believing that we have saved ourselves 3%.
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Interestingly Premier allow one to start the contract whenever one likes and my renewal date is 1 June. That said I expect your psychological angle is right on the money and that the 3% discount is just there to give folk a good feeling as they whizz their renewals through. Got to dash now because the DFS sale "must end" today :)
 
Angele said:
I didn't know that. So far as I am aware, all MDL contracts end on 31 March. So, except in your first year, they all run from 1 April.
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Yes Premier appear pretty flexible in this regard - only caveat is that if going for the monthly option the first payment is comprised of 2 x monthly installments, which is subsequently followed by ten more installments commencing two months after the first one is paid.

Edit: one also gets 42 "free" visitor nights at other Premier Marinas, which is quite good if one wants to say toss the boat in Falmouth for a bit before/after heading west to the Isles of Silly or wherever,
 
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mainsail1 said:
Another highly geared buy out that does not make financial sense followed by three years of increased charges to cover interest payments plus asset sales all over the place followed by collapse when boaters vote with their feet over the new charges. Capitalism at it's finest!
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I would suspect that as most lenders to heavily geared purchases have in recent years lost a lot of money, one suspect this buyer will need some pretty heavy security for any loan, banks and venture fund capitalists are not working to the pre crisis business model.

It may be they have to break up the business and sell the marinas as individual packages to get a decent price
 
There have been a lot of management problems at Premier as the gurus have tried to maximise immediate returns rather than create long term goodwill. Gosport has had a lot of problems and has significant vacancies when Haslar, next door, is full. Rigid top down management, often by non boaties, has often been the cause of these problems.
Combine this with significant environmental problems, such as dredging, Gosport andFalmouth in particular, and it might just seem like a good time to bail out.
Can anyone remember the price paid?
Suspect any purchaser will simply be operating on a yield play with C&N being the only existing operator in the mix but it would seem unlikely that there have been no direct talks here before anything went public.
 
I don't believe any existing marina operator is in a position to spend or raise the sort of money mentioned by the ST. (definitely not Castle Marinas!). Most have their own existing long term debts to worry about, and those that don't simply aren't big enough.

So the sale will either be to another financial gambler, or the estate broken up by selling the marinas individually. Then the existing operators will be able to cherry pick if they want them or not.
 
BlueSkyNick said:
I don't believe any existing marina operator is in a position to spend or raise the sort of money mentioned by the ST. (definitely not Castle Marinas!). Most have their own existing long term debts to worry about, and those that don't simply aren't big enough.

So the sale will either be to another financial gambler, or the estate broken up by selling the marinas individually. Then the existing operators will be able to cherry pick if they want them or not.
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Maybe it's time to form an owners' cooperative and enter into non profit partnerships with the local authorities?

PS I sent a copy of the ST article to Compagnie des Ports de Morbihan (ex-Sagemor).
 
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Ripster said:
+2 Don't think they would be interested.
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Except Robih "knows it for a fact".

So, we can all relax safe in the knowledge that the organisation that has ensured that the every other industry in the UK is competitive has our best interested at heart..... :rolleyes:

Actually, the one example I was going to give where I think competition has failed - the (domestic) electricity supply market - that isn't the fault of the Competition Commission, but rather the industry's own regulator, so maybe the CC ain't the worst... :eek:
 
Robih said:
Well I was just trying to be helpful as I have direct experience to offer....but I won't bother again.
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Sorry. I wasn't meaning to be dismissive. But, saying you know something to be true without providing further info regarding the degree of authority behind your assertion leaves the rest of us unable to determine whether or not we should be reassured. For example, there is a big difference between "I know, coz I'm the boss of the CMA" or "I bumped into someone in the pub who used to work there and thinks it is the type of issue they would look into, probably".

I understand you may wish to preserve anonymity so, even if you were the boss, you might not wish to admit it here, but some additional info would be helpful, please.
 
One thing to do to pass time on a long passage is a few back of envelope sums on running a marina.

Add up what you think are berth rentals, then subtract what you think are the running costs.

I've done this several times and never got a very big notional profit at the end of the exercise, and sometimes (like years with dredging) I come up with a loss.

I suspect that marinas are not the money making machines we tend to think they are.

That's probably why them seem so keen to develop, then sell or lease, shoreside property.
 
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