preferred engine choice?

[russ]

I am considering another two boats on the market. One is an 03 S34 with Ad41's and the other a much later boat with D4's. Both with good history.
I know the 41's are a good reliable engine and the D4 is a modern computer aided engine but which is the preferred option considering there is a 4 year build date between the two boats?

 

[volvopaul]

I am considering another two boats on the market. One is an 03 S34 with Ad41's and the other a much later boat with D4's. Both with good history.
I know the 41's are a good reliable engine and the D4 is a modern computer aided engine but which is the preferred option considering there is a 4 year build date between the two boats?

I can give a very simple answer which you will then make your choice .

41 is a simple engine and cheap to service , no electronics at all.

D4 is a smooth engine which will cost a lot more to service , when the electronics go wrong like the HCU or PCU failure your talking thousands to fix , you also have to compare the drives , DPE simple design .
DPH full of problems, steering rams , trim hoses, trim pumps, steering hoses, steering cable failure , the list goes on .
You need deep pockets to run the later boat.

 

[russ]

I can give a very simple answer which you will then make your choice .

41 is a simple engine and cheap to service , no electronics at all.

D4 is a smooth engine which will cost a lot more to service , when the electronics go wrong like the HCU or PCU failure your talking thousands to fix , you also have to compare the drives , DPE simple design .
DPH full of problems, steering rams , trim hoses, trim pumps, steering hoses, steering cable failure , the list goes on .
You need deep pockets to run the later boat.

Thank you Paul.

 

[russ]

Today. The 41's had a rusty sump on port engine. :ambivalence:

 

[Whitelighter]

All things being equal Id take the D4s without hesitation. Smoother, more powerful. the S34 with D4s is a completely different boat.

if you limit yourself to old technology you are going to limit yourself to old boats.

 

[Whitelighter]

Today. The 41's had a rusty sump on port engine. :ambivalence:

its an old used boat. If that's its only flaw just knock the price of rectification off it an get on.

Though it strikes me you want a new boat for second hand money.

 

[russ]

its an old used boat. If that's its only flaw just knock the price of rectification off it an get on.

Though it strikes me you want a new boat for second hand money.

Not at all, I have a budget and want the best I can get. I don't mind a bit of work if the price is right. But I don't expect to pay top price for a boat that has rusting sumps and impellers not changed for two years, oil leaking from top of engine, so along with the general condition it was more work than expected for a top priced boat.

I sold my last boat fully polished, AF and a fully serviced engine and leg. Naively I thought I may see a few being sold in a similar condition. A couple of which were but unfortunately had some major faults that the vendors or I weren't willing to deal on.

Guess I may have to increase my budget to reflect the condition that I am after.

 

[petem]

Russ, there's a reason why these boats are still for sale @ 25/5. Either they're in poor condition, overpriced or both. All the good stuff will have changed hands in the autumn and winter. I know this as I was in the same position two years ago. But hold your nerve, stay alert, and get the feelers out and something will turn up.

 

[MapisM]

impellers not changed for two years

Am I alone in having replaced impellers every other year, normally thinking that they could have lasted for another if not more?

 

[petem]

Am I alone in having replaced impellers every other year, normally thinking that they could have lasted for another if not more?

Every other year for me too and on removal they normally look brand new.

 

[russ]

Every other year for me too and on removal they normally look brand new.

I suppose it depends on the hours used rather than time left in the engine.

 

[Portofino]

MAN maintenance manual feels pretty generous stating a vague " from 500 to 1000 hrs " and suggest carry spares and watch for temp increases.
It's silent on time .
There no reason i can think of not to follow manufacturers advice .

 

[petem]

MAN maintenance manual feels pretty generous stating a vague " from 500 to 1000 hrs " and suggest carry spares and watch for temp increases.
It's silent on time .
There no reason i can think of not to follow manufacturers advice .

VP for KAD44 says to check impellers every year. It doesn't stipulate that they are changed every year or even two (we do carry spares).

Whereas drive and compressor belts should be checked yearly / 200 hours and should be changed every 5 years / 500 hours.

 

[Portofino]

There's only one belt ( alternator ) and the manual suggests check and adjust the tension , inspect for cracks annually-etc and then change if see cracking . No time or hrs limits. Carry a spare of course.
Having said that the belt is massive irrc some€100/150' and makes a conventional belt like a VP look like it's come out of Aldi Xmas cracker .
With the previous KAD300 I was changing belts far too often 6 belts on the go .
The pulleys used to rust with VP or end up ever so slightly miss aligned .
Pulleys on the MANs are a grey none ferrous alloy that does not rust and as said the belt x section are huge , they don't seem to wear.
I think Iam quids in maintenance wise ( inc 72 L of oil / year ) than when funding KAD300,S and biannual bellows / drive service.

 

[GrahamHR]

I can give a very simple answer which you will then make your choice .

41 is a simple engine and cheap to service , no electronics at all.

D4 is a smooth engine which will cost a lot more to service , when the electronics go wrong like the HCU or PCU failure your talking thousands to fix , you also have to compare the drives , DPE simple design .
DPH full of problems, steering rams , trim hoses, trim pumps, steering hoses, steering cable failure , the list goes on .
You need deep pockets to run the later boat.

volvopaul, whilst I admit you are a lot more experienced with both engines and drives than I am, what are the problems with:

DPH trim pump; in the engine compartment, it looks the same on on the DPS, super reliable. I had our second boat with a DPS drive for boat for 10 years without a trim pump problem

DPH steering cable; there isn't one, it's all hydraulic as far as I can see. The shift cable needs to be super flexible, like the Teleflex TFXtreme ones, not the cheap solid core types fitted by OEMs..

 

[Greg2]

Today. The 41's had a rusty sump on port engine. :ambivalence:

How bad was the rust? Not unusual and often surface rust that can be dealt with although with the six cylinder lumps in an S34 access is tricky / perhaps not possible. Our KAD32s have some rust on the sumps but it is surface stuff and a winter job to clean it up and paint, which is doable with the four cylinder engines as I can reach underneath.

On your original question Paul has it spot on IMHO but Whitelighter has a point - a D4 engined boat will be very good on the performance front. Depends what you want - older simpler and cheaper to maintain engine are my choice every time and age of the boat is not the major concern - more about condition.

 

[rafiki_]

Am I alone in having replaced impellers every other year, normally thinking that they could have lasted for another if not more?

Every 3 for me. They come out looking new.

 

[volvopaul]

volvopaul, whilst I admit you are a lot more experienced with both engines and drives than I am, what are the problems with:

DPH trim pump; in the engine compartment, it looks the same on on the DPS, super reliable. I had our second boat with a DPS drive for boat for 10 years without a trim pump problem

DPH steering cable; there isn't one, it's all hydraulic as far as I can see. The shift cable needs to be super flexible, like the Teleflex TFXtreme ones, not the cheap solid core types fitted by OEMs..

Hi Graham , I e given an answer to Russ based on what I do every day of the week for a living .

DPH has a steering indicator cable , these are very expensive both to purchase along with the ball joint at the outer end , plus the labour involved to change it . Some boats have to move the engine forward just to gain inside access to parts required to remove the cable .

Trim pump , when trim rams leak and they seem to leak far sooner from new compared to old style DPE rams , quickly the salt water trashes the pump gear and check valves , pump trashed . Check for pink milky oil.
DPS has totally different rams to the DPH and DPE , wry rarely do they fail , just be the American origin or follow on design

We still have a choice to fit either the standard type shift cables which give a few years or the nice super slippy type ones that transform and old boat with the standard set up .

Hope that helps

 

[volvopaul]

volvopaul, whilst I admit you are a lot more experienced with both engines and drives than I am, what are the problems with:

DPH trim pump; in the engine compartment, it looks the same on on the DPS, super reliable. I had our second boat with a DPS drive for boat for 10 years without a trim pump problem

DPH steering cable; there isn't one, it's all hydraulic as far as I can see. The shift cable needs to be super flexible, like the Teleflex TFXtreme ones, not the cheap solid core types fitted by OEMs..

 

[russ]

How bad was the rust? Not unusual and often surface rust that can be dealt with although with the six cylinder lumps in an S34 access is tricky / perhaps not possible. Our KAD32s have some rust on the sumps but it is surface stuff and a winter job to clean it up and paint, which is doable with the four cylinder engines as I can reach underneath.

On your original question Paul has it spot on IMHO but Whitelighter has a point - a D4 engined boat will be very good on the performance front. Depends what you want - older simpler and cheaper to maintain engine are my choice every time and age of the boat is not the major concern - more about condition.

The port sump did look quite bad but then I didn’t start poking around. Strange that starboard was very clean.