Pre 1985 VAT status in France

[GTom]

Don't just contact any HMRC. It needs to be Salford office who deal with the T2L's.
Find the thread and read it. Its very simple and the blank form is attached to one of the posts there. Very easy but remember to put a stamped addressed envelope in the application.

Do you need to enclose a copy of registration and bill of sale or a VAT bill?
Is it a problem if the registration is channel islands/IOM?

(don't have the original bill/VAT, the boat is pre-1984...)

 

[lw395]

....
Is it a problem if the registration is channel islands/IOM?

(don't have the original bill/VAT, the boat is pre-1984...)

I would think being registered outside the EU VAT area might well be a problem.

 

[GTom]

I would think being registered outside the EU VAT area might well be a problem.

You might be right, even though flag is just a decoration from VAT point of view.

 

[Rafiki]

An Interesting Thread especially if the Uk leaves the EU with No Deal and is immediately treated as a third country. In those circumstances I cannot see the VAT status being an issue for boats that are clearly visitors on vacation -- if it were then sure the VAT status of all the cars and trucks leaving the ferries in Calais would have to be checked and proved.
However, for owners who are permanently mooring boats in the EU then that is likely to be a completely different can of worms. In a no deal scenario one could easily see the argument that the owner has permanently imported the boat from a 'third-country' and has to pay VAT and duty irrespective of what might have originally been paid in the UK, it would be up to the owner to argue to the UK HMRC that he has exported the boat and wants the VAT originally paid back -- well good luck with that. Maybe it wont get that bad, maybe Boris will see the folly of a no-deal Brexit -- does he have a yacht? I think John McDonnel does!!

 

[PHN]

if it were then sure the VAT status of all the cars and trucks leaving the ferries in Calais would have to be checked and proved.

Different from a boat it is the car license plate that does identify its VAT status. So nothing further to check.

 

[Fr J Hackett]

An Interesting Thread especially if the Uk leaves the EU with No Deal and is immediately treated as a third country. In those circumstances I cannot see the VAT status being an issue for boats that are clearly visitors on vacation -- if it were then sure the VAT status of all the cars and trucks leaving the ferries in Calais would have to be checked and proved.
However, for owners who are permanently mooring boats in the EU then that is likely to be a completely different can of worms. In a no deal scenario one could easily see the argument that the owner has permanently imported the boat from a 'third-country' and has to pay VAT and duty irrespective of what might have originally been paid in the UK, it would be up to the owner to argue to the UK HMRC that he has exported the boat and wants the VAT originally paid back -- well good luck with that. Maybe it wont get that bad, maybe Boris will see the folly of a no-deal Brexit -- does he have a yacht? I think John McDonnel does!!

When a boat had it's VAT paid in the UK pre Brexit the UK was part of the EU and the EU actually received a small amount from that VAT payment as it does with every VAT payment. So I fail to see the logic whereby they can claim that a boat VAT paid within the EU even if it was paid in the UK is not EU VAT paid. Of course that status can lapse if the boat stays outside of the EU for 2 years or is it 3 but at the time of Brexit surely it must be acknowledged as EU VAT paid until that period outside the EU has lapsed.
I am surprised there has not been significant legal debate on this.

 

[lw395]

When a boat had it's VAT paid in the UK pre Brexit the UK was part of the EU and the EU actually received a small amount from that VAT payment as it does with every VAT payment. So I fail to see the logic whereby they can claim that a boat VAT paid within the EU even if it was paid in the UK is not EU VAT paid. Of course that status can lapse if the boat stays outside of the EU for 2 years or is it 3 but at the time of Brexit surely it must be acknowledged as EU VAT paid until that period outside the EU has lapsed.
I am surprised there has not been significant legal debate on this.

You expect tax to be logical?

 

[PHN]

I am surprised there has not been significant legal debate on this.

There is. It's in the news every day: deal or no deal Brexit.

 

[Fr J Hackett]

You expect tax to be logical?

It isn't so much tax but politics.

 

[Fr J Hackett]

There is. It's in the news every day: deal or no deal Brexit.

I meant this specific issue and it doesn't matter if it's deal or no deal at the moment.

 

[GTom]

I meant this specific issue and it doesn't matter if it's deal or no deal at the moment.

Recognizing a VAT status is a "deal" by definition. However, I also fail to see, why the 3 years rule doesn't apply here.

Anyway, fetching a T2L to be in the safer side...

 

[Rafiki]

When a boat had it's VAT paid in the UK pre Brexit the UK was part of the EU and the EU actually received a small amount from that VAT payment as it does with every VAT payment. So I fail to see the logic whereby they can claim that a boat VAT paid within the EU even if it was paid in the UK is not EU VAT paid. Of course that status can lapse if the boat stays outside of the EU for 2 years or is it 3 but at the time of Brexit surely it must be acknowledged as EU VAT paid until that period outside the EU has lapsed.
I am surprised there has not been significant legal debate on this.

As I've said elsewhere, if there is No-Deal Brexit the UK immediately becomes a '3rd country' just like the USA, Thailand or Australia etc. If you import goods from 3rd countries into the EU then you have to pay VAT and import duty and the I cant see the French authorities giving a tinkers cuss what tax was originally paid in the 3rd country, be it Thailand, the USA or the UK.

It could be worse..... the Spanish could argue that all those yachts in Palma already imported by Brits who are by definition 3rd country citizens must now pay Spanish VAT and import duty, but I dont think this is likely to happen.

 

[dunedin]

Recognizing a VAT status is a "deal" by definition. However, I also fail to see, why the 3 years rule doesn't apply here.

Anyway, fetching a T2L to be in the safer side...

Having already obtained one ourselves, I don’t think the T2L makes much difference unless boat in EU27 on B day. Might be if boat is in Europe not U.K. though.

 

[Rafiki]

Different from a boat it is the car license plate that does identify its VAT status. So nothing further to check.

But in the case of a no deal Brexit all the French Customs will be interested in will be "Is this asset being imported permanently or temporarily into France/the EU", they simply wont be interested in what taxes were or were not paid in the UK.
This has to be the case because otherwise they would have to treat cars differently depending on whether they were registered in the UK pre Brexit day ( when an element of UK VAT was shared with the EU) or after Brexit day when obviously UK VAT will not be shared.

 

[lw395]

But in the case of a no deal Brexit all the French Customs will be interested in will be "Is this asset being imported permanently or temporarily into France/the EU", they simply wont be interested in what taxes were or were not paid in the UK.
This has to be the case because otherwise they would have to treat cars differently depending on whether they were registered in the UK pre Brexit day ( when an element of UK VAT was shared with the EU) or after Brexit day when obviously UK VAT will not be shared.

Having dealt a littLe with the UK Vat people regarding matters which seem entirely straightforwards to a civilian, I would not be taking bets about what UK VAT officers will be interested in, let alone foreign ones.

 

[PHN]

But in the case of a no deal Brexit all the French Customs will be interested in will be "Is this asset being imported permanently or temporarily into France/the EU", they simply wont be interested in what taxes were or were not paid in the UK.
This has to be the case because otherwise they would have to treat cars differently depending on whether they were registered in the UK pre Brexit day ( when an element of UK VAT was shared with the EU) or after Brexit day when obviously UK VAT will not be shared.

If a car has a foreign license plate than - by definition - it is temporary import in a country. Using a car in a particular country on a permanent basis requires - by law - that you must acquire a license plate of that country. I don't know for all EU countries, but at least in some of them importing a car (from another EU country) means paying some kind of motor vehicle import tax (not VAT). There are people who locate their car on a permanent basis in another country without following proper import procedures. But not being caught doesn't mean it is allowed. That is the risk they take.

The reality of life is that when a car - same as a boat - is present in some country it can be complicated to prove how long it was over there and especially what are the officials willing to believe ...