Potential Purchase Checkilst

paulrae

paulrae

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Honestly, I've tried a search of the various combinations of purchase/survey/checkilst on the forum search engine, but failed to get any matches.

I'm going to have a look at a new (to me - 15-year-old) yacht next week. Does anyone have a sugested checklist of the main items to have a look at when checking a potential purchase. I'm not really bothered about apparently trivial stuff, only the kind of things that might stall the purchase. For example, I know that the headlining is a problem (it's a Westerly, what would you expect?), so I've factored that into my potential offer price. Anything else that the panel would recomend?

Thanks etc, etc, etc.

Paul
 
age of engine

age of rigging (replace at 10 years)

age and condition of the sails

what are the instruments and winchs like

if a fin keel, when were the bolts last pulled

if a bilge keeler, does she dry out at all (compression damage between the keels)

What is his maintenance schedule

any sign of osmosis

any pre-osmosis treatments?

condition of the upholstery

condition of the oven

gas runs, and make sure rubber gas pipes are less than 5 years old

Make sure gas regulator is less than 5 years old

make sure that there is armoured flex hose for gas supply to cooker.
 
This is one I've used to good effect: -

SCHEDULE OF CONDITION


Vessel: Type: Age:

Location: Owner: Tel No:

Asking Price:


Paperwork:-
Registration:

Sales History:

VAT Postion:

Mortgages/Loans/Liens:

Insurance Costs:

Mooring availability/Cost:

Vessel:-

Hull:

Decks:

Hatches & Windows:

Sails:

Reefing:

Spars:

Standing Rigging:

Running Rigging:

Travellers:

Winches:

Anchors/warps:

Pulpit & Pushpit:

Jackstays:

Stanchions/Guardrails:

Boarding Ladder:

Sprayhood/Dodgers/Sailcover:


Navigation Lights:


Engine/Gearbox:



Shaft and Propeller:

Stern Gland:

Fuel:


Batteries:



Electrical System:



Gas System:


Water:




Seacocks:

Bilge Pumps:

Cooker:

Sink:

Fridge/coolbox:

Heating:

Toilet:


Upholstery:

Table:


Navigation Equipment:




Dinghy:

Outboard:

Beaching Legs:

Fenders/Warps:

Boathook:

Flares:

Fire Prevention:

Spotlamp

Awning, Cockpit cushions

Staff and Ensign:

Radar Reflector:

First Aid:

Crockery/Utensils:

Odds and Sods:
 
This list was posted here a few years ago and is very comprehensive

bilges - wet or dry
bilges - odour free
bilges - clean

hull - epoxied to boot topping
hull - signs of osmosis
hull - general condition/cracks etc
hull - around keel
hull - keel bolts
hull - transducers
hull - p bracket
hull - rudder mounts
hull - through hull fittings
hull - seacocks
hull - deck/hull joint
hull - coach roof condition - soft?
hull - non slip condition
hull - rust marks?
hull - bulkhead integrity/location
hull - anchor locker condition
hull - mountings for winches
hull - mountings for other
hull - paint condition

engine - mounts
engine - external condition
engine - impellor cover condition
engine - fan belt condition
engine - rust visible?
engine - oil? - condition
engine - filters?
engine - accessibility
engine - alternator condition
engine - oil leaks?
engine - bilges under engine?
engine - hours
engine - age
engine - manufacturer
engine - linkages

gearbox - oil?
gearbox - leaks?
gearbox - shaft condition
gearbox - stern glands
gearbox - retainers on shaft to prevent dropping
gearbox - linkages

rigging - bottle screws
rigging - bottle screws in safety zone?
rigging - shroud wire
rigging - date of replacement
rigging - wired off?
rigging - tension
rigging - spreaders
rigging - backstay tensioner
rigging - t fixings on mast
rigging - rivet integrity on mast
rigging - mast condition
rigging - mast corrosion at deck
rigging - mast drain holes clear?
rigging - chainplates - condition?
rigging - chainplates - renewed/rebedded?
rigging - forestay mount
rigging - mast pre-bend
rigging - boom condition?
rigging - gooseneck/track condition
rigging - kicker condition
rigging - topping lift fittings

prop - condition?
prop - type?
prop - age

interior - uplhostery condition
interior - woodwork condition
interior - floor condition
interior - companion way stairs
interior - engine cover condition & removal
interior - headlining
interior - bunks frameworks and condition
interior - chart table condition
interior - shelving condition
interior - fiddles strength
interior - bulkhead condition
interior - doors condition
interior - door furniture condition
interior - lee cloths?
interior - fixings
interior - brasswork condition
interior - table condition
interior - table leaves condition
interior - mast step and fixings
interior - cabinets - condition
interior - cabinets - hinges and doors
interior - grab handles
interior - wash boards - condition
interior - wash boards - security
interior - chart stowage?

electrical - switch panel condition
electrical - switch panel back - neatness
electrical - fuses
electrical - wiring tidyness
electrical - wiring insulation - condition?
electrical - gauges working?
electrical - battery status showing?
electrical - shore power installed?
electrical - RCD present?
electrical - galvanically isolated?
electrical - cabling joints - done properly?
electrical - earths robust?
electrical - inverter?
electrical - main switch - type
electrical - gas alarm?
electrical - battery age
electrical - battery type
electrical - battery condition
electrical - anodes - location
electrical - anodes - condition
electrical - shore power cable condition

nav/instruments - type
nav/instruments - condition
nav/instruments - functioning?
nav/instruments - senders/logs
nav/instruments - back lights working?
nav/instruments - steering compass condition
nav/instruments - steering compass back light
nav/instruments - mast head senders OK?

lights - nav - working?
lights - nav - lense condition
lights - nav - wiring to lights
lights - nav - through deck gland at mast - condition?
lights - nav - switches correct?

lights - interior - working?
lights - interior - switches OK?
lights - interior - wiring condition
lights - interior - master switch wired correctly?

galley - condition?
galley - cooker condition?
galley - cooker gimbals
galley - cooker heat insulation]
galley - worktops?
galley - sink condition?
galley - elecrical/manual pumps working?
galley - gas pipe condition to cooker
galley - drawers condition?
galley - draw retainers working?
galley - storage space condition?
galley - coolbox OK?
galley - hob flame out protection?

windows/hatches - watertight?
windows/hatches - crazed?
windows/hatches - catches/locks OK?
windows/hatches - sign of excess sealant?

water tanks - rusty?
water tanks - access hatches sealed?
water tanks - smell?
water tanks - have they been left full or empty?
water tanks - drainable?
water tanks - filler cap sealing?
water tanks - piping clean and secure?

fuel tanks - condition?
fuel tanks - have they been left full?
fuel tanks - filters - qty
fuel tanks - filters - water in them?
fuel tanks - filters - debris in them?
fuel tanks - filler cap - sealing?
fuel tanks - pipe condition and security

ground tackle - condition?
ground tackle - chain length?
ground tackle - safely stowed?
ground tackle - shackles wired?
ground tackle - anchor winch working?
ground tackle - bow roller - condition?

sails - condition?
sails - dry?
sails - sail bags/covers - condition?
sails - bolt rope/travellers condition?
sails - mast track condition
sails - reefing points - condition
sails - genoa wear
sails - hanks condition
sails - roller furling condition

ropes - warps general condition
ropes - sheets and guys - condition
ropes - halyards condition
ropes - wire halyards splicing
ropes - snap shackle condition
ropes - blocks and pulleys OK?
ropes - spliced and finished properly

gas installation - locker safe?
gas installation - locker vented
gas installation - shut off valves working?
gas installation - pipe work OK?
gas installation - regulator condition?

keel condition - signs of damage?
keel condition - dry?
keel condition - antifouled?

external fixings - secure?
external fixings - spray hood condition?
external fixings - tiller/wheel solid
external fixings - pushpit and pulpit secure
external fixings - pushpit and pulpit condition
external fittings - stanchions posts OK?
external fittings - guard wire sound?
external fittings - aerial mounts solid?
external fittings - dan buoys/lifebelts secure
external fittings - jack stays condition
external fittings - tracks and cars - condition
external fittings - toe rail condition
external fittings - rubbing strake condition
external fittings - dodgers OK?
external fittings - engine controls OK
external fittings - external VHF speaker OK?
external fittings - deck lights working?
external fittings - ensign mount OK?
external fittings - teak decking condition?
external fittings - teak gratings?
external fittings - winch condition?
external fittings - winch handles?
external fittings - winch handles holders?
external fittings - jammers/spinlocks?
external fittings - cleats and fairleads?

heads - bowl condition
heads - pump working?
heads - seacocks OK?
heads - pipework OK?
heads - smell?
heads - dry under floors?
heads - seat/lid cracked?
heads - drain unblocked?

****************************
 
Yes check the condition of the boat but presumably if you like her you will get a survey done anyway.

The thing I missed when buying Flipper was there is no where comfortable to "slouch" in the cockpit, you have to sit upright which is OK at sea but a pain ona sunny afternoon at anchor when you want to read / snooze! So make sure that the boat suits your harbour needs as well as your sea needs.
 
PM me with your e-mail address and I'll send you my checklist which I used as a questionnaire to owners when I was looking
 
After ownership and VAT paid, expect to spend almost half as much again on bringing it up to seaworthy state, starting with the shrouds and running rigging.
 
Replacing the shrouds and running rigging or adding 50% to the price to make it tip top and seaworthy?

Pulling on the shrouds and kicking the keels to declare it seaworthy is the normal route but you have to think if the guy selling, who has lost those all important receipts for having the engine overalled (I do mean overalled), the shrouds and running rigging replaced etc etc, is really going to have had all that work done so he can sell his boat on in excellent condition for the buyer's safe use.

Write some expenditure down and total it.

Read what this guy says

http://www.yachtsurvey.com/usedboats.htm
 
We will have to agree to differ. I don't think that quoting 50% is helpful. If I go out and spend £100k on a second hand boat I am not sure that I am then about to spend another £50k on 'doing her up' as you put it.

There is no hard and fast rule to this. It just depends on what condition a boat is in. Why are you suggesting eveyone needs receipts for an engine 'overall'? (I assume you mean engine overhaul by the way.) Some engines are self maintained, and have no receipts at all, and are perfect. Compression tests, an engineers report, a look at how easily it starts and its appearance might tell you something about the engines condition? It might not cost anything, or it might need a whole new engine.

Why are you suggesting that running rigging always needs replacing? When we bought our current boat, we washed the lines in a washing machine and they all came up like new. I've replaced a couple over the next few years (the genoa sheets were too short!) but most have still got years of service left in them. Assuming no receipts means that you need to get new standing rigging doesn't cost the earth. Our 39 footer cost £2k to rerig.

I am not sure that your use of 'safe use' is anything more than an emotive suggestion. 'Seaworthy' doesn't have to mean 'brand new'. I am assuming that anyone buying a boat has a survey done and then adheres to the suggestions and recommendations of the surveyor. This doesn't mean that your £30k boat is going to take £15k to put her right before you can go sailing. 10% of the cost of the boat per year has been suggested many times as a figure for maintaining a boat. I find the figure far to high and it doesn't cost us anywhere near that figure. This is despite continuous upgrading of equipment and additions in preparation for our planned long term cruising.

I suppose that the only way you might find yourself spending an appreciable proportion of the capital cost of buying a boat is if you buy a boat at the bottom end of the market for a few thousand. The typical 1970's 22 footer in the corner of the yard will probably take a fair bit more than a coat of paint to get her seaworthy... There again, the figure might be 100% or more for some of the wrecks I have seen.

The only real way to estimate is to have a survey and then price things up. Adding a random 50% doesn't make any sense at all.
 
I don't think washing the haliards in Daz means they're ok. It just means you're taking a chance.

Being safe is an emotive issue

No, I did mean 'overall' - owners seem to think changing the oil and filters or new head gasket is a major 'overall' You didn't read my post properly. if it hasn't got a receipt from a reputable firm - it didn't happen

Expect to spend, not definitely, I take it you didn't read the expert's opinion

http://www.yachtsurvey.com/usedboats.htm

PS Most are happy to sleepin a soup of the previous owner's dead skin and body fluids s don't change the cushions - that save some hundreds too.

BOL
 
[ QUOTE ]
I don't think washing the haliards in Daz means they're ok. It just means you're taking a chance. <span style="color:blue"> No I'm not taking a chance. If the line isn't chafed and showing signs of wear, its fine. Nearly all lines are rated by handling and not strength. The line could be half chafed through and still strong enough - although I would have changed it by then. Changing lines for new in the belief that you are making the boat 'safer' is throwing money away. Can I have your old lines please? </span>

Being safe is an emotive issue. <span style="color:blue"> It is when things go wrong. We have a standing joke in our household that expenditure on the boat is always for 'essential safety equipment. Get a sense of proportion? I work in a coded, regulated and safety concious environment most of the time. I don't understand where you are coming from on your 'safety' line.</span>

No, I did mean 'overall' - owners seem to think changing the oil and filters or new head gasket is a major 'overall' You didn't read my post properly. if it hasn't got a receipt from a reputable firm - it didn't happen <span style="color:blue"> Definition
overall Show phonetics
adjective [before noun], adverb
in general rather than in particular, or including all the people or things in a particular group or situation:
The overall situation is good, despite a few minor problems.
Overall, it has been a good year.
The overall winner, after ten games, will receive $250 000.

(from Cambridge Advanced Learner's Dictionary)
overhaul Show phonetics
verb [T]
to repair or improve something so that every part of it works properly:
I got the engine overhauled.
noun [C]
I took my motorbike in for an overhaul.

(from Cambridge Advanced Learner's Dictionary)
</span>

Expect to spend, not definitely, I take it you didn't read the expert's opinion <span style="color:blue"> I did, and I thought it was mostly a load of tosh. It talked of large power boats that cost a lot of money with the yard doing most of thw work. It suggests that using small contractors can save you money. Most people don't get the yard to do all the work. Most yards use small contractors anyway.</span>

http://www.yachtsurvey.com/usedboats.htm

PS Most are happy to sleep in a soup of the previous owner's dead skin and body fluids don't change the cushions - that save some hundreds too. <span style="color:blue"> Talk about emotive? As it happens we put all new cushions, headlinings and covers on our boat, but it still didn't cost us 50% of the purchase price. </span>

BOL <span style="color:blue"> I assume this means best of luck and not something rude. </span>

[/ QUOTE ]
 
You are right to assume BOL is not rude

I see you have overhauled the irony in the use of overall - to elucidate a little for you, its use is generally in the form of "Yeah it's had an overall-" sometimes followed, for some strange reason by the word "mate" and even a sniff to confirm its veracity

My old lines - I use them on other boats where the weight loading is minimal.

Doing something because I consider it necessary to the safety of a vessel is hardly 'throwing away money' vis a vis Meaning>(Etymology: French, literally, face to face, first use circa 1755 - how boring! but don't you just love it!) the insistence by the majority of insurance companies that standing rigging is replaced every ten years - due to the fact that they know the stuff is still ok at that time but might fail beyond it. Their reason is, they have been caught out too many times by those who prefer to ignore the fact......... - I'm sure you can guess the rest

It was very perceptive of you to notice that the 50% would be made up of yard labour charges and to actually mention it in case we didn't know.

You did well to have bought a vessel you didn't have to fit with radar, chart-plotter, GPS, flares, 275N lifejackets (they last forever hey), filters, oil, warps, anchor warps and chain, haliards, lazyjacks, jackstays, new shackles, caribiniers, gybe preventer, bosun's chair, aerials, fall arrest harnesses, safety lines, new sails, sheets, wiring, bulbs, dahn buoys, fenders, fan belts, fuses, sea-cocks, replacement window, epoxy etc to fix crackling, rudder bushes, tiller pilot, etc etc have to look inside the rudder casing to ensure that doesn't go byes when you and the family are off the Lizard, Lands End, Portland - here I go again getting emotive - I know it won't bother you because you've worked in a safe environment..and know all this stuff is good enough for your family, who trust you implicitly, to be taken out into the deep and you have explained all this to your wife.

I am surprised you read only one page of the expert advice - - the one on yachts would have been more helpful as an argument - I only brought the water to the horses

Anyway onto emotive issues we'd all prefer to avoid but find they are, emotive in themselves - like the soil pipe that has been in place for the past twenty ?? years of the boat's life - nice to replace these- I think -

Of course I realise you have torn out, scrubbed with disinfectant and replaced everything around the heads area. Twenty years of the previous owners and their male guests believing they are holding a rifle and not a very small snub-nose revolver as they liberally spray urine over the confines that you are going to let your wife and children use wouldn't be nice - would it <rhetorical

-ask your wife or any female, they've usually been cleaning it at home for donkey's years after inheriting another mother's son. Just a little jocularity!

PS I'm way past the Cambridge Learners dictionary but keep the good work up or should that be - up the good work

BOL
 
So you didn't say this:

Thanks for all the replies chaps. Here are the facts as I have them at the moment. Boat was on the Market for £70k Dropped to £61k was under offer and surveyed which revealed a load of problems. Osmosis in Rudder, bulkhead under mast needs rebonding, fordeck where inner forestay comes through has problems etc etc, plus lots of TLC to dings and stress crazing in topsides and deck (quote of about £11k from the yard - but I'd put it closer to £15k. Then it needs all new headlinings (£3k quoted) and upholstery (quoted £1200 but I think more likely to be £2k) , plus a new set of standing rigging fitted (£1200 plus £400 fitting) The broker now says try an offer of £54k which I think is optimistic to say the least... or at that pric he figures don't stack up.

ON THESE Posts

http://www.ybw.com/forums/showflat.php?Number=461455&page=

Your ignorance is evident and what I expect from someone with your credentials
 
I don't know what point you are trying to make? We happened to buy a boat which was on its beam ends metaphorically and we spend some money getting her back up to reasonable shape. It wasn't (and isn't) typical of second hand boats on the market. In fact it was an absolute dog and most people had walked away. We made an offer which was acceptable to both parties. Like lost of other people who go sailing I did some of the work myself, and employed others to do the rest.

As it happens, even for the price we paid, we didn't spend 50% of the purchase price on refurbishment.

Most boats on the second hand market don't need 50% spending on them either which was my original post..

No idea what my credentials have to do with any of this. My credentials are worth what they are worth. If you continue to make snide remarks, may I suggest that you will be judged by your posts?
 
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