Pot ropes

[DougH]

Told me he had a problem with people raising his pots and nicking the contents

How do the fishermen know that their pots have been robbed from?

During my sub-aqua days fishermen always blamed divers for robbing their pots but I never met any diver who took part in any such actions.

After one dive on a wreck off Plymouth my dive buddy caught a lobster after a long struggle. When we returned to shore we had several fishermen threatening us with violence for robbing their pots.

When asked for their pots locations they would not give them and could not even tell us where we had dived.

If the boating fraternity rob their pots just how do we raise the pots to the surface without heavy duty commercial winches.

 

[simon barefoot]

Pot doors left open, and in shallow water you can pull them by hand. I used to fish 80 concrete weighted pots by hand, every day.

 

[Ariadne]

HURRAH!! I've said this a half dozen times, the only reply was from one who said no point, we would not listen.
In re the Sea Fishery Dept, they are on the back foot as far as local authority funding is concerned, our lot are only too happy to find some extra justification for their jobs. The Fishery Officer is a council employee, and has direct and regular communication with all licensed fishermen.
I have often suggested that folk would rather have a righteous rant on here than do anything constructive.

All well and good but as we can see there is no point in trying to talk to those who don't want to listen, and there are quite a few self righteous people on this thread! You know the same ones who want ban anything on the sea if it got in way of their race or inconvenienced them in any way shape or form and made them late for last orders/booked meal in restaurant!

Talking solves things and mud slinging just buggers things up for all!!

 

[fisherman]

I dont accept that its impossible to keep a buoy on the surface at all times - QUOTE]

Not impossible, not quite.
In normal circumstances off The lizard I used to lose them to ships, about 100 a year from a total of 28 ends at sea, even though they were stowed some of the time.
To keep an end up in tide would need a huge buoy, 200 fm of rope instead of 80, and 100kg of weight instead of 40. Then we can light them, but the losses to ships will be unsustainable. Seems the only option is to pack up altogether.

The marks I use now, and there are 74 of them between Newlyn and the Lizard, seem not to have caused any trouble as I haven't lost one for ages, even though they are rigged with 8mm split film at the top, which you could bite through with your second best teeth.

 

[Ariadne]

How do the fishermen know that their pots have been robbed from?

During my sub-aqua days fishermen always blamed divers for robbing their pots but I never met any diver who took part in any such actions.

After one dive on a wreck off Plymouth my dive buddy caught a lobster after a long struggle. When we returned to shore we had several fishermen threatening us with violence for robbing their pots.

When asked for their pots locations they would not give them and could not even tell us where we had dived.

If the boating fraternity rob their pots just how do we raise the pots to the surface without heavy duty commercial winches.

Each boat will have a way they close the doors so to speak, the robbers don't look they just open them and close then wrong.

As for divers, there was a notorious club from the valleys that used to come down to Gower and rob pots. I once ripped out the side of a dinghy with a gaff which shamelessly following the surface marker as the diver systematically worked our string once - you could see the **** doing it from the surface! Our buoys were marked with flags and the PLN and the PLN on the boat was visible to the dinghy driver as we approached and he still carried on!

So how do stand on this then? By the way the water was only 4M deep over shallow wreck and they swam/walked ashore safely with no complaint (only some verbal) and strangely no police either!

 

[wotayottie]

I suggest you have a serious and balanced talk with somebody who actually knows what they are talking about as you clearly don't!

Do you know much rope it would take to keep a buoy on the surface in a race at springs and how much of that rope would be floating around at say low water springs or during neap tides???????

F**k me then you guys would have something to complain about.............

Presumably you dont think that this guy knows what he is talking about.

I dont accept that its impossible to keep a buoy on the surface at all times - QUOTE]

Not impossible, not quite.
In normal circumstances off The lizard I used to lose them to ships, about 100 a year from a total of 28 ends at sea, even though they were stowed some of the time.
To keep an end up in tide would need a huge buoy, 200 fm of rope instead of 80, and 100kg of weight instead of 40. Then we can light them, but the losses to ships will be unsustainable. Seems the only option is to pack up altogether.

The marks I use now, and there are 74 of them between Newlyn and the Lizard, seem not to have caused any trouble as I haven't lost one for ages, even though they are rigged with 8mm split film at the top, which you could bite through with your second best teeth.

Rather than being simply abusive, why dont you try thinking your way through the an issue. Quite clearly it is possible to keep the buoy on the surface - its a matter of the relationship between the buoyancy of the buoy, the drag on the rope from the tide and the weight of the rope. And no it would not need to float on the surface - use polyester rope and weight the first couple of meters. Or use leaded polyprop as we do on our moorings and as is made for the fishing industry for just such a purpose.

But what you are really saying is " I dont care what risk I put other water users to. "

 

[Seajet]

While I too find it hard to understand how a proper marker can't be used, I have to say I have chatted in private with 'Fisherman' about this same subject long ago, and found him very amenable and willing to help.

Fisherman, sorry if that's blown your cool with the others and you have to stand in a corner at the Awkward Lobstermans' Club and wear a pointy hat for being reasonable !

 

[fisherman]

Presumably you dont think that this guy knows what he is talking about.

Quite clearly it is possible to keep the buoy on the surface - its a matter of the relationship between the buoyancy of the buoy, the drag on the rope from the tide and the weight of the rope. And no it would not need to float on the surface - use polyester rope and weight the first couple of meters.
But what you are really saying is " I dont care what risk I put other water users to. "

You miss the point, it's just not financially possible, leaving apart the issue of what to do with all that rope at slacks. 200 fm of rope in 30fm of water is a problem, if we use leaded it hitches in the bottom....I feel I should repeat what an old fisherman used to say til we had him garotted: "Everyone knows what to do with a sore arse except the bloke that's got it"

 

[fisherman]

While I too find it hard to understand how a proper marker can't be used, I have to say I have chatted in private with 'Fisherman' about this same subject long ago, and found him very amenable and willing to help.

Fisherman, sorry if that's blown your cool with the others and you have to stand in a corner at the Awkward Lobstermans' Club and wear a pointy hat for being reasonable !

Yeah, yeah. Trouble is, no one seems to notice the main point, WE WOULD MUCH RATHER YOU DID NOT GET CAUGHT UP !! It costs us time and money, in some cases a yacht drifting away with a few hundred quids worth hanging on the prop and dropping it where I can't find it. BUT, there are some fishermen who are not thinking outside what may be a very small and hidebound by tradition box, maybe have just a little chat?

 

[maxi77]

Yeah, yeah. Trouble is, no one seems to notice the main point, WE WOULD MUCH RATHER YOU DID NOT GET CAUGHT UP !! It costs us time and money, in some cases a yacht drifting away with a few hundred quids worth hanging on the prop and dropping it where I can't find it. BUT, there are some fishermen who are not thinking outside what may be a very small and hidebound by tradition box, maybe have just a little chat?

Yet many do seem quite happy to take the risk with unsuitable marks and laying their gear in places they know both leisure and commercial users will go. As I have said where I am now there are rules and they are enforced by the removal and confiscation of improperly laid or marked gear. I have both seen a poorly marked string of pots and in many areas there are quite a few and those lain in channels. Some coatal areas are worse than others round the UK and yes I have seen the 2ltr milk bottle and blue or green plastic oil containers, if you are lucky it is a sinking rope but all to often it is a floater. Having sailed down the Atlantic coasts of France Spain and Portugal as well as fair chunks of the UK the UK is by far the worst.

 

[fisherman]

So, you know what needs doing, dahns, lights leaded rope, ect ect, how will you take it forward? No use going on at me, I'm on your side...

 

[Ariadne]

Presumably you dont think that this guy knows what he is talking about.

Rather than being simply abusive, why dont you try thinking your way through the an issue. Quite clearly it is possible to keep the buoy on the surface - its a matter of the relationship between the buoyancy of the buoy, the drag on the rope from the tide and the weight of the rope. And no it would not need to float on the surface - use polyester rope and weight the first couple of meters. Or use leaded polyprop as we do on our moorings and as is made for the fishing industry for just such a purpose.

But what you are really saying is " I dont care what risk I put other water users to. "

I have thought it through and I post with my knowledge as an ex inshore fisherman, deep sea fisherman, as somebody who holds a MN Masters ticket and who who has spend most of his working at sea.

When I was inshore fishing the guy who owned the boat was actually a member of the local lifeboat crew, I have rescued many a near drowned swimmer, towed in many boats and sailboards in with no financial gain, and been involved in more than a few searches for bodies at sea! I think I know enough about how people use and abuse the sea, you?

Now, rather than call me abusive and not caring, how about checking back on post No.34?
That's how we resolved the issues around potting and sailing, a sort of adult approach from both sides; not quite the polarised approach we are seeing here is it?

 

[Seajet]

I'd be all for communication but I'd be amazed if the fishermen attended, even for free beer; and who does one invite, with people from Chichester, Hayling Island, Langstone, Portsmouth and god knows where all contributing their pot marker / boat traps ?

There's also the point that my club for a start doesn't lend itself to such a gathering; if it were to happen maybe a hired function room in a pub might be the place.

I'd think it human nature that the worst offenders, ie most inconsiderate pot layers, would be the least likely to turn up.

 

[snowleopard]

Having sailed down the Atlantic coasts of France Spain and Portugal as well as fair chunks of the UK the UK is by far the worst.

I have heard that around harbours in New England the pot buoys can be so dense boats have given up trying to enter a port as there was no way in without getting snagged. The locals have baskets round their props and just push through. Perhaps that's why so many US boats have long keels.

 

[maxi77]

I'd be all for communication but I'd be amazed if the fishermen attended, even for free beer; and who does one invite, with people from Chichester, Hayling Island, Langstone, Portsmouth and god knows where all contributing their pot marker / boat traps ?

There's also the point that my club for a start doesn't lend itself to such a gathering; if it were to happen maybe a hired function room in a pub might be the place.

I'd think it human nature that the worst offenders, ie most inconsiderate pot layers, would be the least likely to turn up.

Quite probably but on the otherhand if you do get the more responsible ones on your side then you have more chance of making progress. Fishermen can be very reasonable when you get to know them, I have got pissed more than oncewith fishermen and it's one hell of a way to go.

 

[l'escargot]

Quite probably but on the otherhand if you do get the more responsible ones on your side then you have more chance of making progress. Fishermen can be very reasonable when you get to know them, I have got pissed more than oncewith fishermen and it's one hell of a way to go.

Probably be better company than some of the self important amateurs on here

 

[Ariadne]

"There's also the point that my club for a start doesn't lend itself to such a gathering"

Not aimed directly at you, but here in many cases lies the crux of the matter, parties not wanting to talk, or I'm not having smelly fishermen in my club sort of attitude. It does make for constructive talk.

BOTH parties need to discuss how they operate - rather than s stand off. How many members of Royal XXXXX yacyt club would meet the fishermen on the grounds that they are not worthy, and how many members of Royal YYYYYY yacht club go to the fishermans pub for the meet?

Stop being pig headed and talk to each other. FFS, your supposed to be intelligent, responsible adults! It really isn't that difficult.

 

[Seajet]

"There's also the point that my club for a start doesn't lend itself to such a gathering"

Not aimed directly at you, but here in many cases lies the crux of the matter, parties not wanting to talk, or I'm not having smelly fishermen in my club sort of attitude. It does make for constructive talk.

BOTH parties need to discuss how they operate - rather than s stand off. How many members of Royal XXXXX yacyt club would meet the fishermen on the grounds that they are not worthy, and how many members of Royal YYYYYY yacht club go to the fishermans pub for the meet?

Stop being pig headed and talk to each other. FFS, your supposed to be intelligent, responsible adults! It really isn't that difficult.

Ariadne,

it's nothing like that !

Just a case of logistics, don't want to say more as my boat has been threatened during the Studland saga.

 

[Ariadne]

Yeah well, now there is another government cop out!

It's well known fact that all sea horses (Hippocampus hippocampus), only exist in Sea Life centres or university establishments.

A malicious rumour spread by the bunny hugging fraternity has said they really do exist in the sea around the UK, and they are being culled indiscriminately by people hurling large lumps of galvanised metal at them and or dragging said lumps of metal through the mud and sand.

Thus said rumour has enabled the bunny huggers to close vast stretches of safe of coastline, safe havens and beaches, so they can sunbathe in the nude without having to look at floaty things ruining they view, or have children from boats digging holes in sand and adults parking dinghies on the beach to go to the pub.

 

[Seajet]

So far they've been prevented from closing said stretches of coastline, but the battle isn't over yet.