Pot ropes

[Neil]

1. Pots are our living.

I have a little trouble with this.

It struck me once when I heard a spokesman from the fishing industry ranting on the telly (after some quota or other), "The fisherman has the right to make his living from the sea, as the farmer does from the land"

Notwithstanding the fact that the farmer only gets out of the land what he puts into it; land purchase/rental, plant and machinery, fertiliser etc whereas the fisherman puts nothing in, only takes.

Who gave the fisherman the right to sequester a common resource for his own gain?

 

[l'escargot]

I have a little trouble with this...Who gave the fisherman the right to sequester a common resource for his own gain?

Or the boater for their own leisure...?

 

[Neil]

Or the boater for their own leisure...?

"The Tragedy of the Commons".............

But I'm sure someone will come back with the safety/livelihood equation...

 

[maxi77]

1. Pots are our living. You sail for fun.

2. If it's a dangerous place (your words) why the hell are you sailing there?

Usually agree with most of your posts, but not this one....

That is just the same excuse white van man makes when he cuts you up on the road. Any decent fisherman who marks his pots with proper dan bouys and ensures they are not submerged by the tide and they are not actually laid in navigable channels is quite fine in my opinion.

It is the selfish and dangerous plonkers who use plastic milk bottles and the like on short lines that make them sink in the tidal flow or at high tide and place them right in channels and harbour entrances that deserve to loose all their gear and if they tried it here in the Algarve they would. Here if you hit a pot marker in daylight you are not paying attention and deserve it, but in the UK many are downright criminal.

 

[l'escargot]

"The Tragedy of the Commons"...............

I had to look that one up, but yes.

There does seem to be an increasing attitude on this forum, and amongst some forum users in particular, that the interests of the leisure boater over rides all other considerations.

Don't get me wrong, I disagree with the view that commercial operations should take total priority, but the sea and the coastline are big places and everyone is entitled to a bit of it, no matter what they want it for.

If people can't go out there and play nicely, then they should go home.

 

[simon barefoot]

Right. NO-ONE should deliberately do something dangerous, regardless of earning a living or not. Personally, I wouldn't lay pots in an obvious transit route, (or in Falmouth Harbour entrance!), cos they just get towed/cut/stolen. I'd rather that didn't happen, the sea's a big place, there's plenty of headlands/reefs that I could shoot near, if I was still potting.
Doesn't matter how well you mark your gear, on the last boat I was on we used 2 dahns about 24 inches across plus 8 foot tall flags on each end of the gear and they would often get pulled under by the tide.
In an ideal world there would be some kind of database that all skippers gave a fairly well defined area that they were fishing??

***********

ANYWAY, all bickering aside, I was out on the yak the other day and between Stack point and Maenporth (Falmouth Bay, just south of Falmouth), and across one of the little bays, right where I'd want to motor in, or anchor for a swim and some prick has dropped pots with masses of floating line either end AND between each pot in the string. Utter stupidity.

 

[capnsensible]

Wherever you go, it seems, pots are a nuisance.

For those whos blood boils when in an area of pots, I reccommend you dont sail on the coast of Morocco or anywhere in the West Indies. You may explode.

 

[dylanwinter]

what about....

1. Pots are our living. You sail for fun.

2. If it's a dangerous place (your words) why the hell are you sailing there?

Usually agree with most of your posts, but not this one....

O often hear this argument from 'professional fishermen'

its what the blokes in several harbours use when accused of driving in and out of the harbour at speeds that are a danger to other water users

what about the blokes who earn a living from sailing

the charter people

the pro racers

the delivery skippers


what about all the people ashore who depend on yachties for their living

certainly crab and lobster fishermen have livings to earn

crab and lobster fishermen are dependent upon selling luxury foods to gastonomes who eat the food for pleasure


I do not see the difference between a fisherman and sailors when it come to your clear reponsabilities to other water users

My most frighteeing and expensive experiences over the past six years of my journey around the UK have been caused by badly market fishing gear

dangerous, irresponsible and arrogant

Dylan

 

[AngusMcDoon]

If a professional aeroplane pilot manoeuvred his aircraft in such a way that he endangered pleasure pilots he'd have the book thrown at him, be prosecuted, go to jail, and never fly again.

 

[simon barefoot]

If a professional aeroplane pilot manoeuvred his aircraft in such a way that he endangered pleasure pilots he'd have the book thrown at him, be prosecuted, go to jail, and never fly again.

And if a leisure piilot decided he wanted to fly amongst a load of jumbo jets that were parked up what would happen then, eh?

 

[maxi77]

And if a leisure piilot decided he wanted to fly amongst a load of jumbo jets that were parked up what would happen then, eh?

Not the same thing plonker, and leisure sailors who do get mixed up with the big boys do get prosecuted, the real problem s too many fishermen play very fast and loose with the rules putting other peoples including fishermen, livesat risk. Stop trying to defend the indefensible.

 

[wotayottie]

And if a leisure piilot decided he wanted to fly amongst a load of jumbo jets that were parked up what would happen then, eh?

Same thing - and thats the whole point. The rules apply to all pilots whether or not its the way they make their living. So you pot fishermen get no preference simply because you make a living by fishing. You still have to accept responsibility for others.

But there is another issue you are missing. Boats going from A to B often travel at night in the dark when pot fishermen mostly dont go to tend their pots. So the fishermen dont consider night time visibility and attach lights to their pot buoy sticks. They should do so.

 

[fisherman]

attach lights to their pot buoy sticks. They should do so.

See a couple of weeks back: can you show me a light which will survive stowing at forty fathoms?

Any gear laid in open water, say round the Lizard where I fish, or in the channel, will stow, or drown, except at slack water, in depths from ten to forty seven fathoms. It might in some cases be possible to keep the ends on the surface but this would mean the use of unfeasably long ends, large buoys and heavy anchors. In any case as we cannot, or would not wish to, haul the gear in strong running tide there is no point in trying to keep it on the surface, it's preferable to let it stow out of the way of ships (and yachts).

 

[Ariadne]

The great fishing debate!

Instead of blaming the full time fisherman, why don't you go and complain the to your Sea Fisheries Committee - the ones who issue the pot/shellfish licences to the part time fishermen and other associated people, and ask them why they do not police their local area?

I think you'll find a total lack of will to want to actually do this (Certainly the old South Wales Sea fisheries Committee, didn't have the will to police anything but the cockles!), as involves conflict with some nasty people at times and a total lack of finance to run their boats even if they did.

Just try and listen to the reasoned arguments put across to you guys and try to understand what these guys are saying. It really makes sense if you take the time to listen, learn and try to work together. Years ago at Swansea yacht club we had all the inshore netters and potters in for an evening (very well attended and the bar takings were great!) to talk to the members about their fishing methods, where, when & why they set gear where they did. It worked a treat and resolved a lot of potential conflict. Seems a reasonable approach to me - even if costs your club a load of free beers to get people working together.

You will always get idiots from both sides who don't want to listen, but you also get a load who do. Maybe you guys should get your club to try it?

 

[maxi77]

See a couple of weeks back: can you show me a light which will survive stowing at forty fathoms?

Any gear laid in open water, say round the Lizard where I fish, or in the channel, will stow, or drown, except at slack water, in depths from ten to forty seven fathoms. It might in some cases be possible to keep the ends on the surface but this would mean the use of unfeasably long ends, large buoys and heavy anchors. In any case as we cannot, or would not wish to, haul the gear in strong running tide there is no point in trying to keep it on the surface, it's preferable to let it stow out of the way of ships (and yachts).

Of course the really dangerous time is just before they surface and just after the have been dragged under, an excellent yacht trap, deliberately set.

 

[fisherman]

Instead of blaming the full time fisherman, why don't you go and complain the to your Sea Fisheries Committee - the ones who issue the pot/shellfish licences to the part time fishermen and other associated people, and ask them why they do not police their local area?

I think you'll find a total lack of will to want to actually do this (Certainly the old South Wales Sea fisheries Committee, didn't have the will to police anything but the cockles!), as involves conflict with some nasty people at times and a total lack of finance to run their boats even if they did.

Just try and listen to the reasoned arguments put across to you guys and try to understand what these guys are saying. It really makes sense if you take the time to listen, learn and try to work together. Years ago at Swansea yacht club we had all the inshore netters and potters in for an evening (very well attended and the bar takings were great!) to talk to the members about their fishing methods, where, when & why they set gear where they did. It worked a treat and resolved a lot of potential conflict. Seems a reasonable approach to me - even if costs your club a load of free beers to get people working together.

You will always get idiots from both sides who don't want to listen, but you also get a load who do. Maybe you guys should get your club to try it?

HURRAH!! I've said this a half dozen times, the only reply was from one who said no point, we would not listen.
In re the Sea Fishery Dept, they are on the back foot as far as local authority funding is concerned, our lot are only too happy to find some extra justification for their jobs. The Fishery Officer is a council employee, and has direct and regular communication with all licensed fishermen.
I have often suggested that folk would rather have a righteous rant on here than do anything constructive.

 

[fisherman]

Of course the really dangerous time is just before they surface and just after the have been dragged under, an excellent yacht trap, deliberately set.

There is no extended period of 'just before they surface' as the buoy expands on the way up it comes up at an exponentially increasing speed, and appears very suddenly.
'Trap, deliberately set': do you want me to keep it on the surface or let it stow sooner? Doesn't matter what the marker is if it's just submerged.

 

[wotayottie]

See a couple of weeks back: can you show me a light which will survive stowing at forty fathoms?

Any gear laid in open water, say round the Lizard where I fish, or in the channel, will stow, or drown, except at slack water, in depths from ten to forty seven fathoms. It might in some cases be possible to keep the ends on the surface but this would mean the use of unfeasably long ends, large buoys and heavy anchors. In any case as we cannot, or would not wish to, haul the gear in strong running tide there is no point in trying to keep it on the surface, it's preferable to let it stow out of the way of ships (and yachts).

I reckon the key words are " would not want to". Clearly if there was a way of keeping the buoys 2 meters down that would be ideal. But there isnt - they have to come to the surface for you to pull the string up, and when they are on the surface or just below it they are a danger if not clearly marked.

I take your point about drowning the light, but by far the greatest risk to other boats is at night so lights are vital. I dont accept that its impossible to keep a buoy on the surface at all times - its a matter of a sufficiently long line and sufficient buoyancy. The real issue is that its too much trouble and from a p[otters perspective wasted money to do so.

I've just done the leg from Falmouth to Padstow. Off both the Lizard and Lands end in daylight you can see pot buoys well marked with sticks and flags and you can see them with just a pick up buoy half submerged or maybe an old plastic container covered in weed.`

 

[Ariadne]

I dont accept that its impossible to keep a buoy on the surface at all times - its a matter of a sufficiently long line and sufficient buoyancy. The real issue is that its too much trouble and from a p[otters perspective wasted money to do so.

I suggest you have a serious and balanced talk with somebody who actually knows what they are talking about as you clearly don't!

Do you know much rope it would take to keep a buoy on the surface in a race at springs and how much of that rope would be floating around at say low water springs or during neap tides???????

F**k me then you guys would have something to complain about.............

 

[simon barefoot]

Instead of blaming the full time fisherman, why don't you go and complain the to your Sea Fisheries Committee - the ones who issue the pot/shellfish licences to the part time fishermen and other associated people, and ask them why they do not police their local area?

I think you'll find a total lack of will to want to actually do this (Certainly the old South Wales Sea fisheries Committee, didn't have the will to police anything but the cockles!), as involves conflict with some nasty people at times and a total lack of finance to run their boats even if they did.

Just try and listen to the reasoned arguments put across to you guys and try to understand what these guys are saying. It really makes sense if you take the time to listen, learn and try to work together. Years ago at Swansea yacht club we had all the inshore netters and potters in for an evening (very well attended and the bar takings were great!) to talk to the members about their fishing methods, where, when & why they set gear where they did. It worked a treat and resolved a lot of potential conflict. Seems a reasonable approach to me - even if costs your club a load of free beers to get people working together.

You will always get idiots from both sides who don't want to listen, but you also get a load who do. Maybe you guys should get your club to try it?

Without doubt the most constructive post of the year. Virtual pint awarded. In fact, if you are in Falmouth any time I'll buy you a real one!