Pot buoys

[Graham_Wright]

One of the most exciting moments on our just-finished Guadeloupe charter involved fishing buoy dodging. "Buoy" is a bit of a misnomer as "used coke bottle" is more accurate. The bottom end of the line carries a cage baited to trap any lured langoustine or similar.

Needless to say, we missed spotting one and the pair of floats embraced our keel. This carried a bulb at the bottom end. Real problem was that we were sailing down wind under jib alone and the cage acted as a sea anchor (may have been a mud anchor bearing in mind the depth). Turning up wind may have allowed the line to drop off but under jib alone that wan't possible. Hoisting the main gave us more speed but not enough to turn. Bearing in mind the risk, we turned the boat as far off the trailing line as possible to keep it clear of the prop, we switched to engine. The prop immediately fouled.

There was no alternative to cutting the line which, having hoisted it with the dinghy grapnel, we reluctantly did. The remains round the prop we removed having anchored inshore out of the chop (but not out of the current which made it interesting!).

Why do fishermen use two "buoys". How can you avoid them at night? What would others have done?

We could maybe have dropped anchor but in 14 metres depth it was arguable it would have dug in and may have caused more problems.

 

[AngusMcDoon]

Two floats with floating polyprop line in-between? Makes it easy for the fisherman to hook it when lifting. That's why 2 floats. Common in Donegal I found. Makes moving at night like a game of Russian roulette.

 

[TQA]

Staying outside the 200 ft contour line avoids most buoys especially the three coke bottle ones.

At night the above applies and when the time comes to make for the anchorage the crew earns her G&T on the bow with a spotlight.

For the benefit of anyone visiting Guadeloupe the area inside the 200ft contour between Diamond rock and the middle of the Bay de Fort de France is the most heavily fished area and there are large numbers of fishpots with buoys of varying viz. Almost all come in pairs and yes more than a few are clear pop bottles.

 

[Seajet]

A pair of long handled garden ' loppers ' - ideally the type with a serrated blade on an outside edge - are well worth having aboard.

This sort of thing but as I say try to get ones with a serrated blade on the outside edge of one side.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Pro-Telesc...id=1528767000&sr=8-10&keywords=garden+loppers

 

[Venus1]

I have no such experience (touch wood!), but I'm wondering whether just furling the jib and stop sailing would help. The boat might try to come around head to wind on its "sea anchor", and drift off. Hopefully the line around the bulb would be lower than the prop, depending on keep profile. Perhaps a jury rigged mizzen to help her come around...
Feel free to lampoon this idea. I am writing from my arm chair

 

[Seajet]

Venus1,

it is - sorry but I'll have to say it - pot luck !

A boat with an inboard engine and a pot marker around the prop ( I recently helped a boat with a line around the prop which the cutter couldn't manage to saw through ) would be pretty badly placed; I dread the idea of being anchored by the stern by a pot line, transom into the sort of waves one may expect off Portland, Christchurch Ledge and Selsey for a start.

I'm lucky in this respect, and one of the things which attracted me back to my A22 is that if such a wrap-up happened I can lift the outboard in the well and apply an old serrated breaknife.

If it was around the keel yes I would think facing up into the current would allow one to drop away, but I suspect it would not be as easy as that, a lot of effort while possibly being hammered by waves - as boats tend to fall off bows downwind, which is why the suggestion of a mizzen of course - if one happens to have one !

If the line was just around the keel I'm sure the engine wound be the answer, but if the line came within reach under tension that's where the pruning loppers come in.

In all my boats I keep old serrated breaknives in the cockpit, and in the anchor locker up front, with wrist lanyards.

 

[Graham_Wright]

I have no such experience (touch wood!), but I'm wondering whether just furling the jib and stop sailing would help. The boat might try to come around head to wind on its "sea anchor", and drift off. Hopefully the line around the bulb would be lower than the prop, depending on keep profile. Perhaps a jury rigged mizzen to help her come around...
Feel free to lampoon this idea. I am writing from my arm chair

Furling the jib didn't work and we didn't have time to install a mizzen mast!

As the fishermen work from small boats, the line between the two buoys seems to be a trivial advantage. The risk of losing a cage seems to be more important.

 

[AngusMcDoon]

Furling the jib didn't work and we didn't have time to install a mizzen mast!

As the fishermen work from small boats, the line between the two buoys seems to be a trivial advantage. The risk of losing a cage seems to be more important.

I was in Donegal a fortnight ago where double floaters are common. The fishermen (and everyone come to it) chat until your eardrums bleed, so I asked, & that was their reply. There are few yotties in that part of the world, very much less than Scotland west coast, so I guess that's why they can use that arrangement without howls of protest. They have one big float & one small one, with floating line between.

 

[Seajet]

It is certainly a Top Tip, if you see two buoys, DON'T go between them !

I asked a very experienced pro fisherman, his answers were interesting.

For a start the idiots who lay lobster pots in dangerous vital passages like off Selsey or Portland inner passage are usually amateurs trying to get a few lobster to sell to their pub landlord mates - so unregulated.

Also he told me if anyone did get caught by his pot marker buoys he wasn't that bothered if the marker was cut free, as long as the pot on the seabed wasn't moved too much he could always find it via GPS and a grappling hook.

 

[Neil_Y]

Many have floating line between floats to make pick up easy, but I can't quite see why you couldn't sail upwind with the jib? for a few hundred m, or just spun the boat round head to wind and stopped. I'd never start the engine knowing that there was something floating around that might get near the prop, you were lucky but the damage can be extensive and expensive. Bent P brackets, and gearboxes pulled off the engine or the engine pulled off the mounts.

But it is one of the hazards of boating, it's interesting that the fishermen often catch their own gear as they are operating close to it and using the engine.

 

[Graham_Wright]

Many have floating line between floats to make pick up easy, but I can't quite see why you couldn't sail upwind with the jib? for a few hundred m, or just spun the boat round head to wind and stopped..

Believe me - I tried. Nice boat, Harmony 42 but with a wide stern.

.

I'd never start the engine knowing that there was something floating around that might get near the prop, you were lucky but the damage can be extensive and expensive. Bent P brackets, and gearboxes pulled off the engine or the engine pulled off the mounts.

It was the briefest of revs and stopped immediately.

P.s. NEVER use the word just!

 

[KellysEye]

>For the benefit of anyone visiting Guadeloupe the area inside the 200ft contour between Diamond rock and the middle of the Bay de Fort de France is the most heavily fished area and there are large numbers of fishpots with buoys of varying viz. Almost all come in pairs and yes more than a few are clear pop bottles.

Agree with the advice, been there seen those many times a nightmare so avoid them.

 

[Graham_Wright]

>For the benefit of anyone visiting Guadeloupe the area inside the 200ft contour between Diamond rock and the middle of the Bay de Fort de France is the most heavily fished area and there are large numbers of fishpots with buoys of varying viz. Almost all come in pairs and yes more than a few are clear pop bottles.

Agree with the advice, been there seen those many times a nightmare so avoid them.

…………and don't sail at night!

 

[Poey50]

A pair of long handled garden ' loppers ' - ideally the type with a serrated blade on an outside edge - are well worth having aboard.

This sort of thing but as I say try to get ones with a serrated blade on the outside edge of one side.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Pro-Telesc...id=1528767000&sr=8-10&keywords=garden+loppers

There's no room to fit a decent rope cutter on my shaft so, if it comes to the worst, I've got a grappling hook, a mask and wetsuit and a breadknife. Not very reassuring.

So I bought those exact branch loppers. They don't have a serrated blade and I wasn't sure if they would simply crush a nylon rope but I need some for the garden anyway so thought I would give them a punt.

Just tried them on an old bit of 14mm three strand rope. They went through the rope cleanly like a knife through butter with barely any effort from me. No crushing at all and very sharp. Not a complete solution - what is? - but definitely worth having permanently aboard, I reckon.

Good call Seajet!

 

[Triassic]

I'm afraid I take the view that if a fisherman isn't prepared to give sailors a fighting chance by marking their pots properly they have to accept they are going to lose a few. In the OP's situation I would have done everything he did except start the engine. Once the boat is stopped pull the line to the surface with a hook and cut yourself free.

 

[Rustyknight]

I dread the idea of being anchored by the stern by a pot line, transom into the sort of waves one may expect off Portland, Christchurch Ledge and Selsey for a start.

Having been in just this situation in the Alderney race, I can confirm it's not a pleasant experience. The boat was a Jaguar 25 with saildrive, and with a few hours to go before slack water I put out a pan pan call, which was answered by St Peter Port radio. They then contacted Alderney Radio, and eventually the Alderney Lifeboat came to the rescue, and after some shenanigins freed us and towed us into Braye.

 

[Seajet]

Having been in just this situation in the Alderney race, I can confirm it's not a pleasant experience. The boat was a Jaguar 25 with saildrive, and with a few hours to go before slack water I put out a pan pan call, which was answered by St Peter Port radio. They then contacted Alderney Radio, and eventually the Alderney Lifeboat came to the rescue, and after some shenanigins freed us and towed us into Braye.

RustyKnight,

I'm not afraid to say that situation would have frightened me fartless !

We had an interesting one In my Carter 30 at the top of the Alderney Race, motoring in a flat calm when one of the Volvo core plugs corroded through and the temperature alarm went off; we stuck on araldite epoxy and spent a not all that enjoyable time spinning downtide waiting for it to set.

 

[Graham_Wright]

I'm afraid I take the view that if a fisherman isn't prepared to give sailors a fighting chance by marking their pots properly they have to accept they are going to lose a few. In the OP's situation I would have done everything he did except start the engine. Once the boat is stopped pull the line to the surface with a hook and cut yourself free.

In my case, the boat wouldn't stop. Jib furled and main had not been set. But the windage on the stern meant the pot line was bar taut. I hooked the line with the dinghy grapnel but, even winching it, couldn't lift it within reach. At 78, the desire to live a bit longer is irrepressible. Eventually, with harness and hanging on like grim death, I could reach it and cut it. The wrap round the prop shaft was less worrying with shallow sheltered anchorages in reach.

 

[TQA]

In my case, the boat wouldn't stop. Jib furled and main had not been set. But the windage on the stern meant the pot line was bar taut. I hooked the line with the dinghy grapnel but, even winching it, couldn't lift it within reach. At 78, the desire to live a bit longer is irrepressible. Eventually, with harness and hanging on like grim death, I could reach it and cut it. The wrap round the prop shaft was less worrying with shallow sheltered anchorages in reach.

Get a cheap serrated bread knife and drill a couple of holes in the handle so it can be bolted to a pole. A broom handle will do but longer is better. I have an 8 ft pole that I use with a scraper for bottom cleaning as well.

A serrated bread knife will cut through most cordage easily.

If you are unlucky enough to get a prop wrap a knife on a pole allows you to work from the surface using snorkel gear without having to dive under the stern which is a bloody stupid thing to do.

 

[Seajet]

With respect I'd say even snorkel gear - which I still carry as Plan C / Z - is too dangerous for me as a moderately fit 56 yr old to try alone offshore.

I'd suggest the pruning loppers if one can - with the assistance of a kedge anchor to lift the bower warp if possible, and a definite +1 to having old serrated bread knives handy at each end of the boat; failing that a VHFChannel 16 or Mobile 999 cal to the Coastguard, they won't mind and will probably enjoy it.