Possible change in rules for residents in France

[Roberto]

A new law is being discussed in France (already voted by the Assemblée nationale, it still has to be examined by the Senate).

According to this new article, every French resident (no matter what nationality), owner of a non-French flagged boat, will have to comply with French regulations about safety equipment and operator certificates.


Article 12 bis A
http://www.assemblee-nationale.fr/14/ta/ta0672.asp

 

[Sybarite]

A new law is being discussed in France (already voted by the Assemblée nationale, it still has to be examined by the Senate).

According to this new article, every French resident (no matter what nationality), owner of a non-French flagged boat, will have to comply with French regulations about safety equipment and operator certificates.


Article 12 bis A
http://www.assemblee-nationale.fr/14/ta/ta0672.asp

« Art. L. 5241-1-1. – Quel que soit leur pavillon, les navires de plaisance et les véhicules nautiques à moteur appartenant à des personnes physiques ou morales ayant leur résidence principale ou leur siège social en France ainsi que les navires de plaisance et les véhicules nautiques à moteur dont ces personnes ont la jouissance sont soumis, dans les eaux territoriales françaises, à l’ensemble des règles relatives aux titres de conduite des navires et au matériel d’armement et de sécurité applicables à bord des navires de plaisance et des véhicules nautiques à moteur battant pavillon français. »

There's my boating budget going through the roof.

 

[jimbaerselman]

So, the popular Belgian flag of convenience for French residents loses its value . . .

 

[GrahamM376]

Will be interesting to see if they go the same route as the Portuguese in that any "boat" resident for more than 6 months has to conform.

 

[DownWest]

It does say motor boats, so if yours is powered by sail with an auxilary motor, would it be included? No licence required to operate a sailing boat.

 

[Roberto]

It does say motor boats, so if yours is powered by sail with an auxilary motor, would it be included? No licence required to operate a sailing boat.

As you say there is no French operator certificate for sail, so it will not be needed for French residents having non-French registered sailboats.
On the other hand, all the safety equipment would have to conform to French regulations, both for sail and motorboats.


A country that has gone a similar way is Italy: in this case all Italian nationals (and residents) having non-Italy flagged boat must have the relevant operator certificate; safety equipment does not need to follow Italian regulations. Somehow discriminating, in that non-Italians with non-Italy flags do not need the certificate, even if they are residents in Italy.


Anyway, this new French regulation still has to be discussed furthe before it is formally approved.

 

[RichardPerou]

I have never thought, that French equipment regulations particularly onerous. What one would normally carry.

 

[syneraida]

So exactly what safety equipment are you required in excess of normal safety gear. For example we have....

1. Offshore 1st Aid kit
2. Epirb
3. Liferaft
4. Lifejackets (x8)
5. Danbouy
6. 2 x Horseshoe lifebouys with lights
7. VHF Radio (with DSC)
8. Offshore pack of flares
9. Ditch bag with usual extras.
10. Handheld VHF and GPS

Am I missing something?

 

[Chris_Robb]

So exactly what safety equipment are you required in excess of normal safety gear. For example we have....

1. Offshore 1st Aid kit
2. Epirb
3. Liferaft
4. Lifejackets (x8)
5. Danbouy
6. 2 x Horseshoe lifebouys with lights
7. VHF Radio (with DSC)
8. Offshore pack of flares
9. Ditch bag with usual extras.
10. Handheld VHF and GPS

Am I missing something?

Yes - what are the expiry dates on relevant items? If you have them they must be in date. (I believe)

 

[westernman]

So exactly what safety equipment are you required in excess of normal safety gear. For example we have....

1. Offshore 1st Aid kit
2. Epirb
3. Liferaft
4. Lifejackets (x8)
5. Danbouy
6. 2 x Horseshoe lifebouys with lights
7. VHF Radio (with DSC)
8. Offshore pack of flares
9. Ditch bag with usual extras.
10. Handheld VHF and GPS

Am I missing something?

Yes (in the above list). But you will probably find you already have it covered.

Things like log book, current list of light houses and characteristics, water proof torch (or individual ones for each lifejacket) etc.

Here is the official list (not yet updated for this year's changes):-

http://www.developpement-durable.gouv.fr/IMG/pdf/07a_DGITM_equipement_secu_plaisance_4p_DEF_Web.pdf

 

[syneraida]

@michaelchapman

Thanks for the link, yep, think i've got it all covered, but it does raise a couple of interesting questions.

One question regards the issue expiration of safety equipment raised by @chris_robb. If I have a full set of flares (in date) and some out of date ones do I have to (by law) dispose of the out of date flares? Also if I have a liferaft that need servicing but I only plan on doing coastal trips (ie. no liferaft is required) how do I demonstrate this, or do I have to remove the liferaft and leave it on the dock because it is "out of date"? Surely it would be better to have a liferaft (during coastal sailing) that has "expired" than none at all?

This kind of leads me on to my next question regarding the designation of Coastal and Offshore. I see (for the French) offshore constitutes +60 Nautical Miles away from land. But my understanding is that +12nm would put you in international waters where international rules (and your flag states rules) apply and not French rules. The international rules (and British maritime law) do not stipulate safety equipment (by law), the French surely can not enforce this law within 12nm as you could argue you are not leaving coastal waters then when you are +12nm they do not have any right to enforce it as you are out of French waters?

Note I am talking about a British flagged NOT French flagged vessel.

I welcome any comments and please correct me on the above if I am wrong.

 

[GrahamM376]

This kind of leads me on to my next question regarding the designation of Coastal and Offshore. I see (for the French) offshore constitutes +60 Nautical Miles away from land. But my understanding is that +12nm would put you in international waters where international rules (and your flag states rules) apply and not French rules. The international rules (and British maritime law) do not stipulate safety equipment (by law), the French surely can not enforce this law within 12nm as you could argue you are not leaving coastal waters then when you are +12nm they do not have any right to enforce it as you are out of French waters?

Note I am talking about a British flagged NOT French flagged vessel.
I welcome any comments and please correct me on the above if I am wrong.

I don't know what the French intentions are but, if a vessel is not on innocent passage through a state's waters, the state can impose whatever rules they wish, regardless of the boat's flag. If your boat is based in France then you are not on innocent passage.

 

[syneraida]

I don't know what the French intentions are but, if a vessel is not on innocent passage through a state's waters, the state can impose whatever rules they wish, regardless of the boat's flag. If your boat is based in France then you are not on innocent passage.

Sorry I didn't write my original post very well, what i meant is that if you are within the 12 mile limit then how do they enforce the requirements for offshore equipment (such as an epirb) as you are technically not offshore, and surely if you are more than 12 miles offshore they have no jurisdiction?

I fully agree if you are within the 12nm limit, but if you are outside?

 

[RAI]

I gather the Portuguese regard any foreign flagged boat arriving in Portugal as being ocean-going, so apply the most requirements. Fortunately they don't seem fussed by boats on short stay.

 

[Tranona]

Sorry I didn't write my original post very well, what i meant is that if you are within the 12 mile limit then how do they enforce the requirements for offshore equipment (such as an epirb) as you are technically not offshore, and surely if you are more than 12 miles offshore they have no jurisdiction?

I fully agree if you are within the 12nm limit, but if you are outside?

Think you will find that it depends on what you boat is capable of rather than what you actually do. So if it is Cat A or equivalent pre RCD then you need the appropriate kit. Just the same as Coding for commercial use in the UK.

 

[Tranona]

I gather the Portuguese regard any foreign flagged boat arriving in Portugal as being ocean-going, so apply the most requirements. Fortunately they don't seem fussed by boats on short stay.

Their rules (in theory) are far more specific only requiring compliance if the boat is "resident" - defined as 180 days a year in Portuguese waters. However, not sure it is enforced either closely or consistently.

 

[RAI]

Their rules (in theory) are far more specific only requiring compliance if the boat is "resident" - defined as 180 days a year in Portuguese waters. However, not sure it is enforced either closely or consistently.

Hopefully not, in my case, and a good few others in Lagos.

 

[westernman]

Sorry I didn't write my original post very well, what i meant is that if you are within the 12 mile limit then how do they enforce the requirements for offshore equipment (such as an epirb) as you are technically not offshore, and surely if you are more than 12 miles offshore they have no jurisdiction?

I fully agree if you are within the 12nm limit, but if you are outside?

They will know whether your boat is based in France or not.

If it is, then they would probably be capable of applying the rules even if you were outside the 12nm limit.

However, I suspect that they will only apply the rules strictly if you give them reason to be difficult with you.

 

[boatman61]

The Portuguese 'Conform' is a lot simpler than the French over regulation..

 

[GrahamM376]

......... they would probably be capable of applying the rules even if you were outside the 12nm limit.......

Some states have a contiguous zone which effectively increases their control to IIRC 24 miles offshore.