Porto Montenegro?

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I currently have a berth near Split in Croatia and I recently got talking to a guy on the Porto Montenegro stand at LIBS. It all seems too good to be true. Fantastic scenery, cheaper berthing costs than my existing marina in Croatia, fuel at €0.60/litre, reduced VAT on nautical goods, all year round flights via Dubrovnik and, apparently, reduced incidence of the Bora wind.
Where's the catch? I have heard that the cost of a cruising vignette in Montenegro is very high. Is that it?
 
Hi there

This is Katie from yacht Monty B. We have been in Montenegro for the last 3 years and are wintering in Porto Montenegro for a second winter this year.

The PM sales team are very slick and I'm not sure where they got the 60 cents a litre for fuel from, other than you can get it cheap and duty free if you are leaving the country. The rest is pretty much true though. It is a stunning country and reasonably cheap to live, foodwise. There's lots of ourdoorsy stuff on your doorstep in winter, if you like exploring. Great hiking etc.

Marina costs in PM are maybe lower than Croatia, but I wouldn't describe them as cheap. The winter berthing rate for 2011/12 (7 months, Oct to April inc) start around €2400 for 12m up to €3200 for 15m. Porto is relatively sheltered from the Bura though and its effects are negligable (unlike Kotor Bay where it blows very strongly indeed).

These prices have increased quite substantially from last year and it is likely that they will increase a fair bit year on year until PM does become the most expensive place in the Med. So if you're going to do it, do it now!

The only usual drawback is that it can be wet, due to the high mountains all around. This year so far though has been stunning - 23 degrees today! We've had 5 weeks of almost continual sunshine.

Yes, you do only pay 7 percent, I think, on nautical goods but chandlery goods are a lot more expensive than the UK and fairly limited, though this is improving. You just need to fill that bag if you take trips back to the UK. Frequent BA flights during winter from Dubrovnik, usually only costing around £100 return mid winter.

There are only 2 other liveaboard yachts in this winter but there's quite a lively atmosphere as there are plenty of massive stink-pots wintering here (crews rather than owners being the contributors to the atmosphere!). Plus there is an existing expat population who are a total mish mash of types,which makes life quite interesting.

The only drawback of the marina at present is that there are limited on-shore toilet and shower facilities, plus there is continual building work in progress which can be a little grating at times.

Montenegro is on the verge of fairly rapid development and it remains to be seen what it will be like in 5 years time, but for now it is truly a very beautiful and interesting place to live. (I don't work for Porto Montenegro either!!).

If you want any more info, just drop me a line or have a look at our blog if you want to see what it looks like over here.

Have a good winter.

Katie
 
Hi Katie
Judging by the Avatar I think that the OP might have an affinity with "massive stink-pots" :)

BTW is Porto Montenegro the old navy dockyard at Tivat ?

Hope you have a good 2011
Steve (S/Y Affinite II)
 
ha ha, I meant really really massive oil baron styleee stink-pots, ahem! Not motor boats per se. Honest. Good to hear from you, Steve (I'm afraid the Evinrude is about to join the fishes - we did our best!).

yes, it is the old naval shipyard which makes it all the more interesting as there are old subs and the like hanging around behind the scenes.

And for those who are on the motoring side of things, Kotor bay is 15 miles of flat water heaven.

Forgot to say, cruising permit. Yes, it is pricey. For us, it was €400 last year for annual permit, €280 for 6 months (we are 12 metres on paper so most of you will be paying more than this). However, if you are only berthing your boat and not using it, at present you do not need a permit when it is sat in the marina.

Weekly/monthly permits are still madly expensive for your average cruising bod.
 
Hi Katie thanks for your comprehensive reply. The guys on the PM stand at LIBS were adamant that diesel fuel is about €0.60/litre. I questioned them several times over this because, as a moboer, obviously diesel cost is a major factor in deciding where to berth. In Croatia, the cost is slightly over €1/litre so €0.60/litre is very attractive. Are you saying that this isn't the case though?
We are currently based near Split currently and the Fat Greek doesn't bother to fly his planes to Split between Oct and May so any winter boating means either flying to Dubrovnik or Zadar with a long drive afterwards. Do BA really operate a reasonable schedule to Dubrovnik all year round and how long does it take to drive to PM?
What about the marina itself? The guys at LIBS were telling us there are now restaurants and shops in the marina but photos we've seen recently suggest that the marina is very much a work in progress as you suggest. So, can you live within the marina or do you have to go further afield for food shopping etc? We have a 17yr old son and he wont accompany us on boat trips unless he can bring 2 or 3 mates. Is there entertainment (ie clubs/bars etc) within walking distance of the marina or do they have to go further afield and is it safe for teenagers to wander about at night?
What about local anchorages? Are there plenty of anchorages within say 10-20nm of the marina for day cruising or do most boaters go north into Croatia?
Thanks for your help
 
Hi there

As far as I'm aware, the duty-free fuel is only accessible if you have checked out of the country. Obviously, it is almost worth doing that if you were based here though the closest check-in for Croatia would be Cavtat (from Tivat) so you've got to do a few miles. last year's prices at the pump in Luka Kotor were at least €1/litre for diesel. I am checking out the facts on the duty-free fuel and will send confirmation later.

Currently, most of the entertainment in walking distance is in Tivat itself where there are a few decent bars and restaurants - plus a cheesy club for the teenagers. This is all growing, of course, and Porto is developing all the time and there will be new bars and yacht club opening this summer apparently. Kotor is only a 15 minute cab journey away and that would be the place for nightlife - it is pretty good in season. Budva is also only 25 mins away and that is very lively indeed. Montenegro is extremely safe in terms of personal safety - much more so than the UK, by a very long chalk. Though it is worth remembering that this is still a fairly conservative, community-based society despite the short skirts and high heels (the women!) and the kind of behaviour seen on Saturday nights in any UK city centre would be definitely frowned on here (thank god).

As for anchorages, it is not something Montenegro is overly blessed with for safe overnighters unless the weather is calm but there are some lovely spots for lunchtimes at anchor and by far the best thing about it is that even in high summer, you can still find places that are deserted and you can still be the only boat in sight, which is pretty amazing for the Med.

You should just come down and check it out. The Boka is still outstanding in terms of scenery, both dramatic and unique. It is a breathtaking place to bring guests to and ideal for day tripping/overnighters. Notable anchorages at the Kotor end of Kotor Bay, Sv Marko island in Tivat Bay and Bigova on the Adriatic side.

I will get back to you with any more info I can gleen about fuel prices.
 
Thanks Katie. I really appreciate any further info about fuel prices. Yes it is a good idea if we cruise to PM to check it out. This sounds like a perfect itinerary for our summer cruise especially as our teenage son has got it into his head that Dubrovnik is the most happening place in Croatia so we may come down in July/Aug. Will it be easy to find a berth in PM at that time and can we book ahead?
 
Small World??

beormakate said:
Hi there

This is Katie from yacht Monty B. We have been in Montenegro for the last 3 years and are wintering in Porto Montenegro for a second winter this year.

The PM sales team are very slick and I'm not sure where they got the 60 cents a litre for fuel from, other than you can get it cheap and duty free if you are leaving the country. The rest is pretty much true though. It is a stunning country and reasonably cheap to live, foodwise. There's lots of ourdoorsy stuff on your doorstep in winter, if you like exploring. Great hiking etc.

Marina costs in PM are maybe lower than Croatia, but I wouldn't describe them as cheap. The winter berthing rate for 2011/12 (7 months, Oct to April inc) start around €2400 for 12m up to €3200 for 15m. Porto is relatively sheltered from the Bura though and its effects are negligable (unlike Kotor Bay where it blows very strongly indeed).

These prices have increased quite substantially from last year and it is likely that they will increase a fair bit year on year until PM does become the most expensive place in the Med. So if you're going to do it, do it now!

The only usual drawback is that it can be wet, due to the high mountains all around. This year so far though has been stunning - 23 degrees today! We've had 5 weeks of almost continual sunshine.

Yes, you do only pay 7 percent, I think, on nautical goods but chandlery goods are a lot more expensive than the UK and fairly limited, though this is improving. You just need to fill that bag if you take trips back to the UK. Frequent BA flights during winter from Dubrovnik, usually only costing around £100 return mid winter.

There are only 2 other liveaboard yachts in this winter but there's quite a lively atmosphere as there are plenty of massive stink-pots wintering here (crews rather than owners being the contributors to the atmosphere!). Plus there is an existing expat population who are a total mish mash of types,which makes life quite interesting.

The only drawback of the marina at present is that there are limited on-shore toilet and shower facilities, plus there is continual building work in progress which can be a little grating at times.

Montenegro is on the verge of fairly rapid development and it remains to be seen what it will be like in 5 years time, but for now it is truly a very beautiful and interesting place to live. (I don't work for Porto Montenegro either!!).

If you want any more info, just drop me a line or have a look at our blog if you want to see what it looks like over here.

Have a good winter.

Katie
Click to expand...

Hi Kate, my friends, Simon and Lizzie are crew on a Large White MOBO (D Flawless), and I believe are with you, there.
If you see/know them, please pass on my regards. Simon usually answers to the tiltle JEDI.

Thanks,

Will
 
Duty Free fuel in Montenegro

Just to confirm, the duty free fuel prices of around 60 cents a litre only apply if you have checked out of the country, so you can fill up at Porto and check out there at the same time. Normal fuel prices apply otherwise, currently around 1.20 a litre for diesel.

Will: my husband Tim has met Lizzie as we run a guardiennage company in the marina and we look after the boat next to Flawless. We will say hi next time we see them.

Katie
 
Flawless???

Magic!! Please make sure you give them both a hard time, on my behalf, naturally.
There's a photo of Lizzie and Simon on my photo album in my profile, stuffing their faces on a BBQ on the back of the boat. Get them to tell you the story of the unwelcome visitor (a friend of ours) who decided to gate crash that particular BBQ......and what he did to my Welsh Flag!!

Just found your brillian Blog, should be working but sod it, back to your blog it is!!

Regards,
 
beormakate said:
Just to confirm, the duty free fuel prices of around 60 cents a litre only apply if you have checked out of the country, so you can fill up at Porto and check out there at the same time. Normal fuel prices apply otherwise, currently around 1.20 a litre for diesel.

Will: my husband Tim has met Lizzie as we run a guardiennage company in the marina and we look after the boat next to Flawless. We will say hi next time we see them.

Katie
Click to expand...

Thanks again. How much of a hassle is it to check in and out of Montenegro? We would normally fill up 4 to 5 times a season and obviously halving our fuel bill is a major benefit.
What kind of guardiennage service do you offer? Certainly if we were in PM, I would be looking for somebody to clean the boat regularly and arrange for on going maintenance jobs to be done. In fact how easy is that? On a mobo there are always probs with mechanical and domestic equipment which need regular attention. Is there much in the way of a marine sevice infrastructure in PM?
 
Hi there

The customs office is right in the marina, you do not even need to move your boat onto the customs dock - you can just go along to the office with your paperwork. So relatively little hassle compared to some.

I'm not sure how much I can say about our guardiennage service on the forum without breaking any "self promotion" rules, other than to say we have a website and are called Yacht Guardiennage Montenegro. Stick it into google.

How well set up Montenegro is in terms of marine service infrastructure is the million dollar question. It is coming, that's for sure and is considerably better than it was 3 years ago, when it really was a case of "who you know". Having been here for 3 years, we have established a reliable base of good contacts for doing various technical jobs. The marina regularly updates its listings of approved contractors and the staff do go the extra mile in order to help you get stuff done here.

The range of goods here is still not brilliant but you can order most things and with the low level of vat on marine goods, the prices are not too bad. We still rely on the UK a lot for most of our boaty purchases.

There is still a lot of room for improvement but it is one of those supply and demand issues - and the more popular Montenegro becomes, the more established the services will become.

I hope that's useful.

Katie
 
Thanks again. I take it you mean this website http://yachtservicesmontenegro.com/? Definitely planning to cruise down from Split and take a look at PM during July or Aug so I will contact you before we arrive and arrange to call on you.
Btw another forumite on another thread reckons its 2 hours drive from Dubrovnik airport to PM. Is this correct 'coz the PM guys at LIBS told me it was just 1 hour
 
ha! Well, I'll split the difference and say 1.5 hours. There is an alternative border crossing which has no queues in summer but takes 20 mins longer to drive. You could probably do it in just over an hour on a very good run in winter with no traffic cops around!

And yes, that is our website.

Yes, do drop us an email. We won't be in PM over the summer as we are out on anchor but we will be around so get in touch.
 
beormakate said:
ha! Well, I'll split the difference and say 1.5 hours. There is an alternative border crossing which has no queues in summer but takes 20 mins longer to drive. You could probably do it in just over an hour on a very good run in winter with no traffic cops around!

And yes, that is our website.

Yes, do drop us an email. We won't be in PM over the summer as we are out on anchor but we will be around so get in touch.
Click to expand...

Ok thanks
 
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